Forum Thermomix

Welcoming Center, Management and General Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: Andrealphus on April 28, 2013, 08:33:00 pm

Title: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on April 28, 2013, 08:33:00 pm
Hi,

just joined here, was looking at your recommended/reviewed cookbooks and stuff... and was just wondering which of the chefs from Britain get 'exported' to you via the goggle box and books?

Is Heston Blumenthal one? I reckon nearly everyone here must know who he is, and he has a few restaurants and cookbooks out, with what most people would consider to be quite 'avant garde' stuff (but which he's just nicked off Harold McGee, really!)

I'm a huge fan of cooking sous-vide, you'll never taste food so perfectly cooked, as food which is cooked at the optimum temperature all the way through - it's melt-in-the-mouth stuff, and I think Heston was the main introducer of this to the public - I actually bought a sous-vide machine before investing in a TMX, because you can't specify the exact temperature on a TMX, just choose from a selection, and I don't know how much love I can now divide between the two of them! Things like chicken, and salmon are out of this world and even scrambled eggs are a bit of a revelation!!

Thoughts, anyone?

Andrea  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on April 28, 2013, 11:28:42 pm
Heston was featured a few times on Australian Masterchef. He is quite well known to Aussies.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: cookie1 on April 29, 2013, 07:21:22 am
I love looking at the chemistry behind his cooking. He is amazing.
Title: Re: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Jamberie on April 29, 2013, 07:22:51 am
He is amazing! My aunt was lucky enough to do work experience at The Fat Duck a few years ago,  she aid that he does some cool stuff!
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: cookie1 on May 01, 2013, 12:54:56 pm
It is headlines in our paper today that Heston is coming to WA later this year.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: achookwoman on May 01, 2013, 01:15:30 pm
I would like to do some sous- vide cooking. but as you say,  you can't control the temperature accurately enough in the TMX.   I tried sealing some steak with the vacuum sealer and then steaming it at a low temp , but it wasn't successful. I am sure you need the proper machine.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 04, 2013, 12:14:19 pm
I wouldn't try steaming it, but if you like your steak rare or medium, could be worth trying vacuum sealing it, then putting it on at 50 or 60 degrees with reverse blades at a slow speed (for 1-12 hours, depending on what you're doing! Once it's an even temperature, it won't matter how long it 'cooks' for up to a certain period). Basically in terms of degrees celsius, it's approx 50 for rare, 55 for medium rare and 60 for medium - so unfortunately you can't do medium rare. Once you've cooked it, heat up a good quality non-stick pan until it's searing hot, lightly oil and season your cooked meat, and throw it on for 20/30 seconds or so each side to brown it (maillard effect) for maximum flavour.

The good news is, if this works, you can 'sous vide' perfect chicken (breasts) - it needs to cook at 60 degrees vac-packed for 2-4 hours (2 hours minimum to kill all pathogens), then flavour and sear it as desired.

I'd be interested to hear any results, although I have a water bath myself, so won't be using the TMX for this. Mind you, once you've tasted proppuh sous vide chicken, you'll never want to go back!! :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: achookwoman on May 05, 2013, 01:08:28 am
Andrealphus,  thanks for that info.  Will give it a go when I have time.   What machine have you got?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 06, 2013, 11:38:47 am
I have a Sous-vide Supreme Demi, it's about the size of a breadmaker, and fits up to 12 100g portions of meat/fish in it :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Woerd on May 07, 2013, 05:05:06 am
I have the Sous Vide Supreme and LOVE it.  I cook a LOT of different foods in it.  Pork tenderloin is so easy to over cook and be a little dry but in the sous vide it is PERFECT every time.  I couldn't live without t or my Thermie either!!!!!
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 07, 2013, 06:53:33 am
I've just looked at the Breville Sous Vide Supreme and the 2 videos at the Breville web site. I'm very impressed and wouldn't mind trying this method of cooking. I'm hopeless at cooking steak. Andrea thinks that medium steak or chicken breast could work in the TMX.  I'm going to give it a go with steak.

http://www.breville.com.au/sousvide
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 07, 2013, 07:03:11 am
Which cut of steak would I use?

The other thing is you would have to be home as you can't set and forget like the sous vide machine. I was thinking it could almost be like a slow cooker. Put your meat, chicken, seafood in before you go to work with the veggies and then all you have to do is sear it and serve.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 07, 2013, 07:11:48 am
who is going to buy it for $600 ;D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Wonder on May 07, 2013, 07:13:34 am
A couple of the guys at work have these and they rave about them all the time. they say these plus a TMX are a match made in heaven.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 07, 2013, 07:30:55 am
who is going to buy it for $600 ;D

I don't know where you saw it for $600 Obbie? At the Breville site it is $799 and at Kitchenware direct it is $799 with a vacuum sealer and grill thrown in. While I don't really want a another kitchen appliance (already have sealer but it was the first one out and is about 10yrs old - still fine though and don't want a grill), it's something I think I would use. Will see how it goes in the TMX.

 
A couple of the guys at work have these and they rave about them all the time. they say these plus a TMX are a match made in heaven.

That's what I thought when I watched the video Wonder  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: cookie1 on May 07, 2013, 08:41:20 am
Thanks for the temperatures. I have a machine that I could try them in. It won't be for a few weeks though.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 07, 2013, 08:46:05 am
LOL Cookie - will be interested how the eel turns out  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: cookie1 on May 07, 2013, 08:48:38 am
Oh gosh, the iPad has a mind of its own. One day I will remember to re read it correctly. Thanks Michele.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 08, 2013, 12:40:22 am
McMich - regarding cuts of steak: I'm not sure whether the names of the cuts are the same in Oz, but you could go for any of the steaks you'd usually have medium-cooked (i.e. fillet, sirloin, rump, rib-eye, t-bone) and do for an hour, assuming they're not of an immense size (bear in mind, I've never tried this in the thermo, only in the sous-vide!). Do NOT season with salt, or marinade in alcohol before vac-packing (alcohol gives it an unpleasant taste in sous vide). *Do leave on a rack in the fridge for 24 hours, if you want to mature it a little more for flavour. You can add a small amount of oil to the vac pack if you want to (best frozen in an ice cube tray, so it doesn't leach out) although oil not necessary. Herbs will add a stronger than usual flavour, so use sparingly if you want to use them.

Once cooked, heat a decent thick non-stick pan up to a very high temp, drain your meat (add juices to your sauce, if you're having one), brush/smear with oil (e.g. sunflower, or similar subtle flavoured that will not burn at a high heat - so no extra virgin olive oil), add salt and pepper, and sear for a few seconds on each side until brown (like a bark effect), for full flavour.

The beauty of using a proper sous vide machine, is that you can then use very cheap cuts of meat, or 'tough cuts', and cook them for between 4 and 72 hours (depending on the cut and meat) for meltingly tender results, whether medium rare or whatever... (So beef skirt, featherblade, and all sorts of braising cuts can be done). And you can cook your steak rare/med-rare/medium or whatever for 1-12 hours, so it will sit in there quite happily until you're ready to sear it while you do everything else.

Also pork and chicken can be done at 60 degrees, or pork done to medium etc. to be moist and tender beyond belief - and after 2 hours the pathogens are killed, salmon can be done to a tenderness like a set custard, fruit and veg to perfection, sauces, scrambled eggs, shellfish, pate, terrines, eggs, foie gras... and that is why they cost a few pennies (but only 1/4 to 1/3 the price of the TMX), because you will never taste food cooked to such perfection and succulence, for any doubters! And if you brine the pork or chicken first, be prepared to be amazed like never before!

And that is why a sous vide machine is worth the money!

Hope this helps, and I hope it works in the TMX - when I saw some women demonstrating at the BBC Good Food show last year, they assured me that you could cook sous vide in it (obviously not rare or medium rare!), so will be interested to hear of anyone's results!

If it works, happy to give a few timings for things that I've done and enjoyed - you just won't be able to leave anything in a TMX for less than medium for more than a set time :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 08, 2013, 12:43:13 am
Sorry correction - still not that familiar with my TMX and all the numbers yet! You *can* do rare (50 degrees), just not medium rare (but you can do medium at 60 degrees!). Forgot the 50 degrees setting while I was posting my last post!  :-))
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 08, 2013, 12:46:30 am
Oh, also - I know this is probably TOTALLY obvious, but just in case.... I'm talking about (almost) filling the bowl with water, before you put your vac-packed food in, and bring it up to temperature, not putting it into a dry bowl!!! Well, better safe than sorry!  :-\
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 08, 2013, 12:49:10 am



<a href="http://www.sousvidesupreme.com.au/online-shop/sous-vide-equipment/sous-vide-supreme-demi-black>

$599.50 + GST

Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 08, 2013, 01:06:21 am
Obbie, I bought mine second hand barely used from Ebay for 190 ($288), and it's 250 ($379) new (from Lakeland)... my TMX 31 on the other hand cost 885 ($1,341)!!! There could be other outlets, or maybe worth sourcing from another country if the postage isn't too high??

Not sure I could choose between them, having fish, poultry and meat so perfectly cooked every time has revolutionised our expectations of food! Ask me in a month?

The sous vide is now one of those gadgets I never want to live without, mind (although for a few years, we just used a huge stock pot, and a sugar thermometer, with meat in sandwich bags and vacuums created by water displacement, and temperature regulated by turning the gas on every 15-20 minutes or so!). So you don't even need a TMX to cook sous-vide, although I wouldn't recommend trying anything other than steak in a stock pot - one hour is enough of checking and fiddling! :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 08, 2013, 02:11:23 am
How come a Thermie is $2000  here, and yours was $1341.

I could experiment in my other thermie machine...
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 08, 2013, 07:13:32 am
Thanks for all that information Andrea.
Well here goes, am going to give it whirl. I have a 110gm fillet steak. Have vacuum packed it, added the basket and preheated the water to 60. Have set the timer for 1 hour and as I'm home will try for 21/2 - 3hrs.

Robyn does the HMP have more temperature intervals? The site you posted didn't work - all good will google.

I would be chuffed if this turns out as I don't want another machine (but may succumb, if it turns out). They did veggies too on the Breville site, looked so easy.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 08, 2013, 07:15:25 am
Yes Michelle, higher temps, and stays there once its programed.

I will try on the weekend. :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 08, 2013, 07:18:30 am
Yes Michelle, higher temps, and stays there once its programed.

I will try on the weekend. :)

There's another machine that's tempting me.  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 08, 2013, 07:21:02 am
Its Fun Michelle, I am happy with my 2.
you can set the temps accurate, then when it gets to temp, it stays there. :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Yvette on May 08, 2013, 07:38:17 am
Mich how did the steak turn out?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 08, 2013, 07:54:42 am
It's still on Yvette. Will post pics and a review once done.  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 08, 2013, 10:04:11 am
The steak was OK - not near mouth watering that was promised.

It definitely  was medium. Cooked for 2 1/2 hours 60C.

A bit chewy, but sort of OK - will give chicken a go.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 08, 2013, 05:12:55 pm
McMich, fascinating to hear about your experiments, but really sorry to hear you were disappointed with your steak - although if it was chewy, that would be more likely to be down to the quality of meat (a good way of verifying the difference between sous vide and pan-cooked or grilled, would have been to cook 2 steaks from the same piece to see the difference) and maybe being medium, rather than m/r? Meat is best if hung for 28 days or a little longer, and from a reputable butcher (not supermarket stuff) and a good breed of cow (OK, I'm not suggesting go for Kobe beef, but you know what I mean!) - dark red, with a nice marbling.

Cooking your 'normal' steak (i.e. fillet/rump/sirloin etc. etc.), which you'd usually cook from 1-3 hours, purely to get it cooked exactly the same all the way through is going to give you a uniform state of cooked-ness all the way through (rather than over-cooked for the outside third etc. if you're exposing it to high heat and turning). I have to say, it is much more juicy and tender cooked medium-rare than medium (which is why I saved for the sous-vide first!), and I think this guy gives some useful information re. steak cooking temperatures:~

http://www.seriouseats.com/2010/03/how-to-sous-vide-steak.html

Regarding medium texture, he says "Solid rosy pink, and quite firm to the touch. With over 6% moisture loss, it is still moist, but verging on dry. Prolonged chewing results in the familiar "sawdust" texture of overcooked meat. Fat is fully rendered at this stage, delivering plenty of beefy flavor. This was the second most popular choice."

On the other hand, it is the cheaper cuts of beef cooked for longer that will really give you results - i.e. a (good) chuck roast for 24 hour at 55-60degrees means that the connective tissue (collagen) breaks down, and gives you (once seared) a roast with a deep beefy flavour which is pink from edge to edge and is as tender as a prime rib roast!

I hope you're not dissuaded from further experiments, would love to hear what you try next - and I hope you're more impressed next time!

If you cook chicken breasts at 60degrees for two (maximum three) hours, you pasteurize it, and can either unpack, season (I love cajun, on a lazy day!) and quickly sear, or you can quickly cool in it's vac pack, and freeze for up to a year (still packed) - it then takes 45 minutes to re-heat in the sous vide. I've never had a chicken breast turn out tough, they're amazingly tender, so maybe that's worth a try if you give it another go?? :) x
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 08, 2013, 08:16:44 pm
I'm still really interested in this method of cooking. Will try again with the steak and give the chicken a go, when I have time.

Thanks again for the information.  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 09, 2013, 12:27:01 am
Have done some more googling about sous vide cooking and found a Sunbeam machine for $199.00. I'm still hoping to master this in the TMX so will do a chicken breast this evening. Fingers crossed it will work out. Might also try some vegetables as well.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Yvette on May 09, 2013, 02:04:21 am
Mich will be interested to see how you go  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Alexis on May 09, 2013, 03:58:36 am
I'm guessing that as a vego I don't really need this machine?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Yvette on May 09, 2013, 04:39:14 am
I would think no Alexis  :D :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 09, 2013, 06:18:57 am
I would say that's a no Alexis  ;D ;D I'm hoping I don't need the machine either and I can find another use for the TMX.

Sous Vide cooking in TMX - Take Two.

Have vac packed the chicken breast and some carrots this time as well. Will let you know how it turns out. I've got high hopes for the chicken breast and am making a creamy mushroom sauce to go with it.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: cookie1 on May 09, 2013, 06:27:34 am
I'm interested in this Michele and enjoying your experiments. I'd like to try when I get home.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 09, 2013, 06:34:36 am
I'm truly hoping this turns out Cookie. Andrea's been a big help and have watched several youtube videos and read up a lot in the last 2 days. Saw some good videos on sous vide meets barbeque.  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: obbie on May 09, 2013, 06:41:16 am
I am interested in how you go too Michelle.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Yvette on May 09, 2013, 06:56:16 am
Me too good luck Mich
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: mcmich on May 09, 2013, 08:20:27 am
The chicken has finished cooking and is a big success  ;D It just melts in your mouth. The carrots were not cooked but I think they should have been done on a higher temperature. Looks very ordinary when first out of the water bath and I don't think you necessarily need to sear it if like me you are covering it in sauce.

Will be doing this again - A big Thankyou Andrea  :-* I will give steak another go.

I'm wondering how the chicken breast would go crumbed after cooking for schnitzel?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Yvette on May 09, 2013, 09:57:30 am
Glad you had success Mich  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under'?
Post by: Andrealphus on May 09, 2013, 10:50:07 pm
Hoooorrraayyyy!!!

So glad the chicken turned out well for you! If I'd seen your post about cooking the carrots at the same time, would have replied more promptly, but that's the trouble with UK/Oz time differences!!

Plus this might be useful for the veggie too, as it's great for cooking veg! Unlike boiled/steamed/microwaved veg which lose nutrients through cooking (as the cell walls are damaged and water and nutrients leach out), cooking them sous vide retains almost all of their nutritive value.

BUT, you do have to cook them at a higher temperature (generally 80-90 degrees C)

So carrots, for example need to go into an 85 degree water bath for 30-50 minutes.

You could try the following recipe: 8oz carrots, 2tbsp unsalted butter, 1tbsp honey, seasoning and a very small amount of herb/spice of choice if desired (i.e. 1/4 teaspoon cumin, or small sprig tarragon etc.). Wash, peel and slice carrots, then vacuum seal with all the other ingredients in a large pouch so that they're in a single layer and cook.

Fruit is also very good cooked sous-vide, and you can also cook pulses etc. - happy to share any information I can if anyone wants any temperatures or timings for anything and can't find them on the web, I have a LOT of cookbooks!!! :)

Andrea :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 09, 2013, 11:29:19 pm
Thanks Andrea, will give the veggies another go.
I will do chicken breast again as it was so good, on the weekend, I think DH would really enjoy it. I've found a few marinade recipes online.
Glad I've found something else to do in the TMX. Only thing is it is limited in the quantity of food able to be cooked, you couldn't do it for a dinner party. That's where a proper machine would be good and to get steak right. For now I am happy with chicken breasts.  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 12:28:11 am
So with the sous vide cooking machine you couldn't do meat and veggies together?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: obbie on May 10, 2013, 12:47:16 am
Might have to try now you have had success. :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 10, 2013, 12:51:53 am
Yvette, I've only been researching the machines for 2 days and in the Sunbeam one they put them in together.
What I'm going to try next time is putting the veggies in for an hour on 80 and then letting the water cool down to 60 and adding the chicken. Will see how that turns out?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 01:05:08 am
Ok sounds good Mich, I have watched the breville videos and might try and find some sunbeam ones. Am very tempted  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 01:38:01 am
Just checked out the sunbeam one it is only 5.5 litre the breville is 11 litre
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 10, 2013, 06:09:27 am
I looked at the Sunbeam one today Yvette (Limited stores of The Good Guys have them in stock for $199). It is only small and is a slow cooker as well (we all have 1 or 2 or 3 of those).

I still think you could fit a fair few steaks or chicken fillets in it as well as veggies. It depends how many you cater for when entertaining. That's the where the TMX falls down, although there is enough space for dinner for 2.

Let me know what you decide - I'm trying hard to resist temptation  :-\
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 06:35:52 am
Thanks Mich I might do a bit more research the Sunbeam is a good price not interested in it being a slow cooker as I have a fairly new one. I would like to be able to cook about 7 steaks if we had people over we only need three atm. I might have a look at the Sunbeam next time I am near Good Guys as see how big it is.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 10, 2013, 06:50:47 am
It would fit 7 steaks Yvette lying flat and not in the rack. The rack is a bit poxy and doesn't fill the cavity space. I'm not interested in it as a slow cooker either, I have two but you never know, when we have Christmas in July I borrow my mums. Kitchenware Direct have The Breville for $799.00 with a vacuum sealer and grill thrown in. The Demi that Andrea and others on this thread have commented on is $599 and they seem happy with theirs. The $199 price tag attracted me.  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 07:06:34 am
I am just wondering too if the quality of the product would be the same for $199, I wonder whether the rack is dodgy in the Breville?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 10, 2013, 07:25:38 am
Basically all it has to do is hold the temperature. The rack is not the best - only because it is small but at that price I might give it a go.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 07:32:41 am
Mmmm.... tempting and it is Mothers Day on Sunday  :) Unless they have already bought something...yer right  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: cookie1 on May 10, 2013, 08:33:39 am
I am really becoming intrigued with this method of cooking. I love reading about it and can't wait to try it, but I probably won't use the tmx. Will use another thermal cooker.
Title: Re: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: *suzanne* on May 10, 2013, 09:00:37 am
Yvette buy it wrap it and give it to yourself ;D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 10, 2013, 10:52:30 am
Maybe I will Suzanne :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on May 10, 2013, 11:53:25 pm
Hi, loving how this seems to be inspiring people!

Michelle - I think your idea of doing the veggies first at 80, then adding steak at 60 is an interesting one, and worth a try (although if I just mis-remembered that and you said chicken, remember chicken needs a minimum of 2 hours at 60 to kill of pathogens, which I don't know how well your veg might survive? Still, at least veg are cheap - you could always take them out instead, then put them back in for a few minutes??).

Regarding Sunbeam - 5.5litres doesn't sound like much, and that's pretty cheap? You can also buy sous-vide circulators (if you don't want to buy a water bath), which you can clip onto the side of a container (i.e. stock pot, large tank), which do the same job, and have minimal storage, if that suits you better! Probably more expensive than a Sunbeam, but a lot more versatile?

As cooking in a water bath relies on the water being an even heat (mmm, is convection the word I'm looking for?), ideally the vac-packed goodies need to be seperated by a rack, and standing upright (like toast in a toast rack, rather than sitting on top of each other, or touching each other) so that the heat can circulate evenly.

Whereas with steaks, you might get some a little underdone, if you squeezed too many in (I'm thinking 7 might be difficult, depending on size and shape, although maybe possible), I'd be very cautious if cooking chicken or pork etc., because of the potential food poisoning if it isn't cooked at the correct temperature for the minimum recommended times.

Still, fascinating stuff, and thanks Michelle for your updates with how it's working in the TMX! :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 11, 2013, 12:17:26 am
Thanks Andrea for the info very interesting  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 11, 2013, 11:15:57 am
Thanks for the additional hints Andrea. Yes cooking the veggies and then adding them back in for a short time would be a better idea. I thought you could leave everything (except chicken) after minimum cooking for up to 24 hours?

Interesting that the vac packs shouldn't touch each other and aren't upright. They have to in TMX.

I'm still really chuffed that the chicken breast worked and want to try one of the marinated recipes I've found. I'm hoping the marinade gives the chicken it's colour and I won't have to brown in a pan.

Thanks again so much for all the information Andrea.  :D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 11, 2013, 11:25:18 am
Yvette, stacelee has just bought the sunbeam machine  :D She is the appliance Queen so will await her review  ;D ;D
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 11, 2013, 11:27:05 am
Thanks Mich, hope you use yours soon Stacelee  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on May 11, 2013, 11:49:59 am
Michelle, I've never tried leaving veg in it, and I still more often cook them in different ways than in the sous-vide, so  not sure on the effects of leaving it in - 95% of the ones I have timings for are for under 1 hour? Also fish has quite short times, but I must admit I usually cook white fish pan/pan-roasted, although salmon is to die for!

There is a book by Douglas E. Baldwin called 'sous vide for the home cook', which has a few pages of temperatures for different cuts of meat, poultry, eggs, vegetables etc., although strangely he only suggests one temperature and time for fish, which I don't personally agree with. He also gives lots of recipes (basically for sauces etc.) which I think are absolutely dreadful, like something out of an eighties economy price cookbook, and I'd never use ANY of them - but that's just my opinion! It's a very good book for a paper reference for temperatures (bar fish!), but you could find all the information online for free!

Heston Blumenthal has a section in his 'Heston at Home' book, which is a great book with loads of things to cook to perfection, but there are only half a dozen sous vide recipes

And Thomas Keller has a book 'Under Pressure: Cooking Sous Vide', which I think is pretty cheffy, but I haven't bought it yet! It's next on the list when I have some spare cash though :D

If anyone else has or buys any good books on it, would be great to hear recommendations :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 11, 2013, 11:59:57 am
Andrea, I have watched several of Thomas Keller's videos. He says you can't cook green veg such as broccoli via sous vide.

What cook book would you recommend for a beginner?

Thankyou for provoking an interest in this style of cooking and that we are to do it on a small scale in in TMX  :-*
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on May 11, 2013, 03:30:00 pm
I'm not aware of anything decent at entry level (maybe because most people who have got to the point of cooking sous vide, can already cook, and sous-vide is more of a scientific way of just ensuring things are cooked to perfection as components of dishes, rather than something to cook whole dishes with, if that makes sense?) - the Douglas E. Baldwin I mentioned is a good introduction to temperatures and times for beginners, but I don't like his recipes (seperate to the times and temps). I've never considered doing broccoli, not least because it's suggested to blanch it first, and I don't see the point! I imagine it must look pretty squashed after being cooked in a vac pack too!!

Apparently Modernist Cuisine (not the home version) has plenty of sous-vide suggestions for vegetables etc, but I don't know of anyone who could afford it!

Worth looking at reputable chefs and restaurants recipes online to find ideas and recipes, e.g. http://www.veggiechef.co.uk/Blog/files/64C_Egg.html

Similar to TMX in a way, I guess, in that I've only found one decent cookbook for that too!!

Andrea :)

Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: stacelee on May 11, 2013, 10:01:10 pm
I used it last night to do some chicken breasts to use in sandwiches and salads today since I've been banned from the kitchen for Mother's Day.  I couldn't resist opening a bag to try on (strange dinner last night, corned beef, cabbage, mashed potato, carrots and one sous vide chicken breast).  The chicken breast was lovely.  I'm already plotting what else to do.  I'm going to try prawns cooked with sweet chilli sauce to put over some rice or pasta.

A selling point for me on the machine is that I can have the meat bagged and ready to go and just drop it in the duo to cook while I make a curry sauce etc in the thermomix.  I also want to have a go at steel cut oats and baked custards/puddings which we eat over winter.  I can do them in the 5-in1 or the now working 6-in1 but the rectangular shape of the duo is  more practical. 

Someone made comment that its only small.  That is actually a bonus for me as I can find room for it and I normally am only cooking for 4  I only have a small kitchen so anything that gets to stay in my kitchen has to pay its way and get used.  The price was also a plus....it was $168 on special at Myers.  I can justify it at that price.  The breville is too expensive for the amount I am planning to use it.  It can also be a slow cooker which frees up other appliances over winter.  I could have bought a commercial unit at the right price as well, but again they are too big and too expensive for the amount of use I will give it.  I am spoilt with the fact I get the bags in large quantities at the right price so that is not a factor for me although I am planning on experimenting with mason jars for the custard and ziplock bags for liquid meals.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 11, 2013, 11:37:26 pm
Thanks Stacelee glad the chicken breast was so nice. Did you use the rack? How many steaks do you think you could cook using the rack?
Have a great Mothers Day
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: stacelee on May 11, 2013, 11:45:34 pm
There are 4 slots in the rack so probably only 4 although you might be able to balance one at either end.  It is not that deep so you wouldn't be able to put more than one per bag.  The breville is probably deeper so maybe you can do more in it.  I wouldn't normally do more than 4 for us.  I want to try hamburgers in it and meatballs for when I have more than 4 to feed.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 12, 2013, 12:58:11 am
Thanks Stacelee let me know how you go  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 12, 2013, 07:02:45 am
Thanks Stacelee. I would like to try burgers also. I saw a youtube video and they looked good.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 12, 2013, 09:31:22 am
I use a small unit (Sous Vide at Home) which you plug your slow cooker in to, it means you can control the temperature of water in the slow cooker to an exact amount and turn it in to a sous vide machine. Much cheaper than a 'real' sous vide machine and you can use your existing slow cooker to do an extra job!

This only works if you have a basic slow cooker with a knob which has low and high, not if it has a digital controller. I've used it to sous vide a variety of meats with terrific results. I do vacuum pack food to cook but the wonderful Modernist Cuisine at Home book says you can use ziplock bags with all the air squeezed out as well.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 12, 2013, 11:32:32 am
So, Bonsai, do you put the slow cooker on high or low and for how long?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: cookie1 on May 12, 2013, 12:04:34 pm
More helpful hints, thank you.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 12, 2013, 03:06:59 pm
Once you plug the slow cooker in to the sous vide controller,  you decide on the temperature via the controller so don't have to change anything on the slow cooker.

For example, I plug slow cooker in to sous vide controller. Fill slow cooker with warm water ( speeds up the time), set sous vide controller to temp I want and it then controls slow cooker (via a thermometer plugged in to slow cooker) . Simple to do for any slow cooker. The only difference between this and a commercial sous vide is that they often have a water circulator which moves water around to avoid hot and cold spots in the container. Not an issue for a domestic slow cooker setup, we have been quite happy with the setup we have.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 12, 2013, 03:12:53 pm
Not sure if my post made sense. The sous vide controller enables me to set my slow cooker to (for example)  62 degrees exactly for as long as I like. DH did a fantastic shoulder of pork for 36 hours last week, so tasty and tender. Once it is in the sous vide it requires no supervision so easy to do in advance
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on May 12, 2013, 09:27:30 pm
That sounds really interesting Bonsai, although I've never heard of one?

In the Sous Vide Supreme (Demi), there's no moving part within the actual water bath circulating the water, so I can imagine that works perfectly well.

I like it when you get gadgets to convert existing gadgets into new ones - innovative!! :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 13, 2013, 12:42:15 am
I have a digital slow cooker so no good. What happens with the rack that is required for the sous vide in the slow cooker?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: stacelee on May 13, 2013, 02:02:49 am
You could probably use anything that lifts the food allowing the water to circulate around.  I took the rack that came with the machine last night out of the sunbeam and put in a narrow cooling wire so that I could the length of the machine.  I bought a butterfly lamb leg from Coles and cooked it for 12 hours overnight.  I browned it for a couple of minutes on my griddle plate this morning and we have really tender lamb for sandwiches today (my son had it for breakfast....gotta love teenagers).  I did a couple of eggs for breakfast this morning and currently have it doing beef to use in a curry tonight.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 13, 2013, 02:07:33 am
Thanks Stacelee, glad the lamb was so tender  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 13, 2013, 12:48:50 pm
Thanks Bonsai. Where did you purchase the sous vide controller?  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 13, 2013, 02:43:07 pm
DH purchased it online from an Australian company sous vide at home. Their website is now under construction, which is strange, but you can email them. The instruction booklet for the device is still online http://www.sousvideathome.com.au/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/SousVideAtHomeInstructionBooklet.pdf

And I think it is quite easy to make a DIY one if you have an electronics person in the house (keeping in mind safety).

We've found it works really well with our slow cooker and avoided the need to purchase another appliance.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 14, 2013, 03:20:11 am
Thanks Bonsai. Would be much better than having to buy another appliance and store it.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 14, 2013, 12:47:03 pm
That's what we thought, and when we got the controller the onlymsousmvide on the market was really expensive, and it isn't something we use all the time. It does make incredibly tender meat with no effort.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 26, 2013, 10:24:30 am
Cooked the steaks 56 degrees for 2 hours and they were like rubber tasted disgusting soooo disappointed
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Halex on May 26, 2013, 10:40:12 am
Oh no how awful & dissappointing Yvette.

Nthing like a good ausse bbq :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 26, 2013, 10:51:57 am
Yes Hally thinking about taking it back hopefully I can get my money back
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Halex on May 26, 2013, 10:59:10 am
Good idea, good luck :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Katiej on May 26, 2013, 11:28:40 am
Oh Yvette I'm sorry to hear that.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: cookie1 on May 26, 2013, 01:35:40 pm
Yvette, that is so disappointing.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Wonder on May 26, 2013, 10:52:10 pm
Yvette that would have been so disappointing. Do you know why they were tough? Do you think it wasn't the correct temp?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 26, 2013, 11:46:27 pm
Wonder don't know followed everything to a tee, i had watched videos as well on line tasted like rubber and plastic
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 27, 2013, 12:41:40 am
I have just rung Harvey Norman and I can get my money back yay
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 27, 2013, 12:49:14 am
Yvette, sorry the steak didn't turn out.
Try chicken, the breast I cooked in TMX was perfect.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: judydawn on May 27, 2013, 12:50:45 am
I'm so glad to hear you can get your money back Yvette - I wondered about that when you posted about your disappointment.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 27, 2013, 12:57:24 am
Thanks Judy

I am not going to be bothered Mich I really wanted it for steaks so if it can't cook them well it will be a waste of money

Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: mcmich on May 27, 2013, 01:15:25 am
Fair enough, good that you can get your money back.  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 27, 2013, 01:25:07 am
Thanks Mich it is a relief
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: obbie on May 27, 2013, 01:36:58 am
so disappointing Yvette
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Cornish Cream on May 27, 2013, 10:09:54 am
Glad to hear you are getting a refund Yvette :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Kimmyh on May 27, 2013, 10:21:29 am
Pleased you are getting a refund Yvette. Good on Harvey Norman too. Guess its back to the grill for the steaks.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Emme on May 27, 2013, 10:58:47 am
Yvette, sorry to hear the steaks weren't a success.  It is disappointing when things don't turn out the way we hoped they would.  Glad you are able to get your money back. 

Marie
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Bonsai on May 27, 2013, 11:25:48 am
Yvette, what type of steak was it? We've had really good results but timing can vary quite a bit dependingmonmthe thickness of your steak.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Halex on May 27, 2013, 11:29:28 am
Yvette, very happy you got your money back, well done :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: cookie1 on May 27, 2013, 01:05:00 pm
Goog old Hardly Normals for giving you your money back. That is good news.
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on May 28, 2013, 01:02:22 am
They were scotch fillet steaks good quality, although not by the time they were finished  ;D

Taking it back on Saturday  :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on June 06, 2013, 01:11:03 am
Yvette, I'm interested to know how you kept your steaks at 56 degrees for 2 hours - did you use a water bath, or a thermomix, or some kind of gadget to modify a slow cooker? (If either of the two latter options, did you test the water temperature at any point to check it?). It's a bloody shame (pun intended!) to ruin good fillet steak!! :)

Did it look medium rare when it came out? Or look over-cooked?
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on June 06, 2013, 01:13:10 am
I did use a water bath I bought the 11litre Breville followed instructions and no good they looked undercooked if anything
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Andrealphus on June 07, 2013, 11:53:04 pm
Well, the appearance of steak straight out of the water bath isn't that attractive (assuming it's medium rare, or not too far either side), it's the quick searing in/on a very hot pan which gives it the flavour and an attractive look - although by the sounds of it, if it seemed undercooked and was chewy etc., it was the steak that was bad! Hope you have better luck next time! :)
Title: Re: Heston Blumenthal 'Down Under' - and sous-vide cooking in the TMX!
Post by: Yvette on June 09, 2013, 05:08:28 am
Thanks Andrea have taken it back have lost interest after the first attempt