Forum Thermomix
Questions Doubts and Requests => Recipe Requests => Topic started by: hopefulcook on March 22, 2011, 11:18:03 pm
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I tried making yogurt a year or so ago with no success (same story, too runny). Now milk is $1/litre and I buy Greek yogurt for $5+/litre and I'd like to have another bash. But even reading through the threads I am still pretty confused as to the best method using the thermie and thermoserver. Can anyone help with some simplified advice please? Thanks heaps.
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Our yoghurt thread has got rather long hopefulcook so here (http://www.superkitchenmachine.com/2009/3581/thermomix-yogurt-recipe.html) is the link to the one that most of this information is based on. Have a try and see how you go.
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Hi hopefulcook,
I make yoghurt every week and have only had it fail once and that was when I used the wrong starter. Here are my instructions:
Place milk (1 or 2L) into TM bowl. Heat for 15 minutes at 90ºC on speed 3. Allow to cool to 37ºC (at this point I wouldn't necessarily rely on the Thermomix temp for an accurate reading). It often says 37ºC but can be quite a bit warmer than that. I actually get my children's thermometer out, put it in a ziploc bag and use that to get a reading. It needs to be cooler than 45ºC. It can take several hours to get that cool (particularly if using 2L milk). Once you have a reading of around 40ºC add your starter yoghurt (about 1/4 cup). I use Jalna Pot Set Organic/Biodynamic Whole Milk yoghurt. Mix at 37ºC for 2 minutes on speed 3 (you don't need to do it any longer - it's really just to get the starter up to the same temp as the rest of the milk). Pour into Thermoserver and wait! I normally do this in the evening and leave it out on the bench until morning. Five hours is too short - the longer you leave it, the thicker it will become. In cooler weather I have been known to keep it cosy in a beach towel!
Good luck :)
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Hi Hopefulcook - the yogurt thread that judydawn has posted is pretty helpful. I use the recipe from judy's link (similar to opi2kenopi & haven't had any problems. Definitely give it another go - it is worth the perseverance with the $ you will save. Good luck ;)
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I'm about to get back into making yogurt - that method works for me - good tip about the kids thermometer too!
I won't be using $1 a litre milk though because I support dairy farmers and not multinational companies so I will keep buying my local milk.
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I won't be using $1 a litre milk though because I support dairy farmers and not multinational companies so I will keep buying my local milk.
Since I found out about homogenised milk, I have been sticking to the Margaret River Organic unhomogenised milk ;D and loving it!
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Get an instant-read probe type thermometer. They are not expensive.
In my TM31 the temp sensors are not at all accurate. When liquid temps shows 37° C. , testing with my external thermometer shows the temp of the liquid to actually be 120° F., or 49° C. That is way too hot and will kill any yogurt culture.
In my opinion, and in all the instructions I have for making yogurt, 37° C., is really not quite warm enough to give a good start to a yogurt culture.
I have three books on cheesemaking open and they all state the ideal temp is 112° F, = 44° C. One book states: If the temperature of the milk falls below 100° F, the culture will not develop as rapidly and the lactobacillus will not be able to convert the proteins.
If you check the second paragraph on this page (http://books.google.com/books?id=7p93EL038ycC&pg=PT68&lpg=PT68&dq=lactobacillus+conversion+of+proteins+in+milk&source=bl&ots=dgCwgz0Vhm&sig=tun7e_8kvEZwQao5gC48HpDRMKw&hl=en&ei=fNyMTYrLPIPQsAOp1-3-CA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=6&ved=0CDYQ6AEwBQ#v=onepage&q=lactobacillus%20conversion%20of%20proteins%20in%20milk&f=false)
note that it states that the desired conversion takes place at 43°C.
The reason I use a starter culture is because these cultures, sold by Cheeselinks in OZ, are correctly balanced. Using commercial yogurt as a starter does not always work well because some are treated during packaging to make them more stable during shipment and storage and some of the organisms can be affected. If you don't have the perfect balance, you get more activity from one or the other and your results will be the stringy or only partially converted proteins.
I'm not getting any advantage by advocating the purchase of these cultures, I simply know I get a better result with them. I can't stand waste of any kind and having to throw away improperly processed dairy products is to me a monumental waste.
As I have said in posts on the other threads, I heat the milk in the microwave and transfer it to another glass container to cool. You can speed up the cooling with blue ice packs or set the container in a shallow bowl of ice water and stir the milk so it cools evenly.
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Yoghurt was going to be my next challenge as we go through about $25+ of yoghurt a week. It's starting to look like a major mission so I think I'll put it off and investigate further. :-\ :(
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Another thing you can do is when your yogurt is set, line a strainer with chux pour the yogurt on top and wrap. Strain overnight in the fridge and you will have a thicker yogurt.
Gretch
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Yoghurt was going to be my next challenge as we go through about $25+ of yoghurt a week. It's starting to look like a major mission so I think I'll put it off and investigate further. :-\ :(
I hope I didn't create the appearance that yogurt is a "major mission." It really isn't and I'm pretty sure that once you go through the procedure once, you will find it is really quite simple.
I recommend an instant-read thermometer because my particular TMX doesn't have an accurate temperature sensor. And I heat the milk in my microwave because I've been doing it that way for years and it works for me. I prepare 1/2 gallon (2 liters) at a time and from experience I know that if the milk is cold it takes 15 minutes on high to heat to the required temp.
Let me say that when I first began making yogurt it was in the days prior to "instant-read" thermometers and I simply put the milk in a saucepan over medium heat and brought it to the "scalding" point - a gentle simmer without boiling it.
I then cooled it until it just felt fairly warm on the inside of my wrist - about 110 degrees F., slightly warmer than baby formula.
At that time there was only one commercial yogurt culture available and only at health food stores and it was expensive but the instructions stated that the resulting yogurt could be used as a "starter" for three or four additional batches as long as nothing was added to it.
I made yogurt for decades this way and never had a problem.
Now I have yogurt appliances and one non-electric incubator but they are not absolutely necessary, just make the process easier.
Don't be put off by my wordiness, this is an easy thing as well as being fun and saving a lot of money.
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Finally got a chance to try again last night. I used our 'frother' thermometer to check the temp and found the same - thermo under-read by quite a lot. Anyway, added Jalna and left overnight. This morning I put in a sieve in muslin cloth. It is still really stringy. Any suggestions how to get it thicker, creamier? The family are huge fans of Farmers Union Greek style yogurt so that is what i am aiming for...
BTW would love to buy organic milk but we are living on a single income so until kids are bigger and I go back to work we all need to make compromises... Was hoping this was a way to save a bit extra $$$
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I don't know what Jalna is - it's not sold in the US.
The stringy consistency is because the culture is not balanced. One organism is taking over and not allowing the other to develop.
As the old saying goes: "It takes TWO to TANGO."
I often use regular supermarket milk, the organic stuff is no more "workable" than regular milk, I buy it at Walmart.
At least one other member on this forum is using one of the starters from Cheeselinks (http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/homestarters.html) and I believe with good results.
Here's another web page for making yogurt. (http://chetday.com/howtomakeyogurt.htm) With some troubleshooting tips and explanations of why a batch did not work.
I documented my entire process a few days ago and published it on my blog:
Homemade Yogurt Start-To-Finish. (http://www.asenjigalblogs.com/homemade-yogurt-start-to-finish/)
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Thanks Andie for the detailed tutorial for making yogurt on your blog.You certainly achieve great results.
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Tomorrow I am going to visit a small creamery where they prepare yogurt from goat milk, although their main business is making fresh chevre and some aged cheeses from goat or from sheep milk.
I met the owner via one of the members of my book club and have been wanting to make this visit for several months.
I will take notes and photos (if allowed) and will be sure to ask about their processing methods. The place has won several awards for their cheeses. I have tried them but not the yogurt. I'm hoping for samples! ;D
I did phone the local health food store this morning and was told the only yogurt they recommend for making yogurt at home is made by Alta Dena - it is not flash-chilled because it is not shipped long distances. She said that the other big commercial companies (even the organic ones) chill the yogurt so much that it inactivates the culture and really interferes with the development of the Lactobacillus bifidus which is the one that is helpful to folks with intestinal problems (irregularity they call it in the TV ads).
We spoke at some length and she said that too many people get discouraged with making yogurt because they have a starter with one or more inactive cultures.
She says that far too often they seem to think that one or more steps can be skipped and they can use just any yogurt from the market. She thinks it's odd that people will spend $50.00 for the "equipment" and balk at spending $6.00 for six envelopes of culture with is guaranteed to work.
They have a new yogurt "maker" that has a little solar heater that circulates warm water around the inner container. They have not yet set it up to demonstrate it and the box was not very informative but when it is up and running, I will go down and take some photos. It is very expensive and seems to be aimed at campers or people who are living "off the grid" in places that must get pretty cold (like up in the high Sierras). I know I wouldn't pay $125.00 for the thing. In the summer it would cook the milk here in the desert.
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Hi Andie thanks for all your advice. Quick question... Can we still eat the stringy yogurt? What can I do with it? Second question, is the liquid that dripped out buttermilk or am I confusing it with something else?
I think I will try the link you suggested for getting the starter. I would so love to get it right but it does seem out of reach right now!!
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As long as it tastes okay, it is fine to eat, just not fully cultured.
You can beat it to blend it well and keep it in the coldest part of the fridge and use it within a week.
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My one year old likes it. It is less sour than our usual. But 4yo turned up her nose!
So what is the liquid that drains off? Can I use for buttermilk scones? Thanks for your expertise!!
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The liquid is whey that comes out of the yoghurt you can use it in smoothies :)
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The liquid is whey that comes out of the yoghurt you can use it in smoothies :)
And in baking, especially in sourdoughs, it gives a bit of extra "tang" and helps the sourdough culture develop a bit more "oomph" - I use it in rye sourdoughs as it lightens them a bit.
I make a lot of yogurt, sour cream, cream cheese and ricotta so I always have a surfeit of whey. I freeze it in 1-cup portions - I use the inexpensive "disposable" plastic containers (no-name store "brand") which I can usually use two or three times before discarding.
After they are solidly frozen, I put all the small containers into a jumbo zip-type plastic freezer bag to keep them all together.
That way I only have to label the bag instead of a bunch of small containers.
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I visited the goat and sheep dairy farm and had a great time. I couldn't take my camera inside the processing facility because there was no way to be sure it was sterile and it did not work from inside a sterile bag - all I got was fuzzy pics of the plastic.
I had to dress in coveralls, knee-length booties, a big "shower cap" on my head and wear a mask and gloves. They don't want any "wild" bacteria in the plant so I had to go through an "airlock" sort of entry where the air blows outward, never inward.
They make yogurt in 100 gallon batches - it is very tangy and very tasty. I brought home several generous samples of the yogurt, chevre and some aged sheep milk cheese - one is similar to manchego and is made only from the La Mancha sheep (I think I have the name correct) They can't call it Manchego because that name is protected by Spain. I would take photos but have to drive back up to get my camera, which I left in the office. Sometimes I am so dumb!
The goats and sheep are very friendly, I visited them after the tour of the plant. The milking "shed" has a very sweet aroma, nothing like a cow facility. They have three different breeds of milking goats and two milking sheep breeds. They also have a fairly new herd of hybrid dairy goats that are also producing cashmere. There are new kids and they are absolutely adorable.
I came away with a lot of respect for these folks who are part of the artisan cheese movement. Unfortunately their products are not available locally in retail stores. Their entire production goes to big hotels and high-end restaurants in the L.A. area - a lot of famous chefs love their stuff. So do I.
Their philosophy is keep the business small so they have full control of the quality.
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I just use pauls brand natural yogurt as my starter and follow Valerie's yog touch wood have never had it fail me :)
Takes a bit of time waiting for it to cool once you have heated your milk but is fine.
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I have just read the posts on this
Making yoghurt should not be complicated. I make it all the time using the EDC recipe heating it for only 20 mins, cooling until it feels warm to my little finger (clean!!!) - about 90 mins if you take it off the TM and leave it on the bench, add the yoghurt - I started with Jalna low-fat but am now just recycling my own yoghurt. I then mix for 10 secs at speed 4, then 37 degrees speed 1 for 10 mins. It then goes in the container of an Easi-Yo ($20 at K-Mart - I'm going to buy a second one so I can make a double lot).
The Easi-Yo instructions tell you to use boiling water to keep the yogurt warm but their powdered product is made using cold milk. As 'our' yoghurt comes out warm from the TM you can end up overheating your precious bacteria by using boiling water which will give you runny yogurt. If you just use water hot enough to put your finger in but too hot to leave it there it is perfect.
I leave the Easi-Yo on the bench for at least 12 hours ( a couple more won't hurt) before putting the yoghurt in the fridge. I have an empty Jalna container which also fits perfectly into the Easi-Yo insulated container which I currently alternate with their big red lidded tall one. Currently I'm using the $2 light milk. My yoghurt is amazing, probably the best I've ever eaten. I've made yoghurt off and on for years using most methods you've ever heard off and this is the simplest and best ever.
I had a couple of runny numbers when I first got my TM and worked out that the two things that made yoghurt runny were water too hot in the Easi-yo and too short a time I.E less than 12 hours on bench before refrigerating.
My phliosophy is that I spent all this money on this wonderful appliance in order to make my life easier and not more complicated and to date it has never let me down except for trying to brown onions. After owning Harriet for 8 months we are still an item and very much in love, well at least I am.
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Thanks for your hints on perfect yoghurt making lizzieO - I haven't made any for a while so will put it back on my list of things to do and will try it your way.
The TMX makes nice caramelised onions - I make up a batch before BBQ's then just throw then on the hotplate to warm up and everyone loves them.
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The original link form JudyDawn is great-thank you ;D. I've struggled with yoghurt making in thermie before but this recipe worked well, is more yummy (less sour) than bought natural yoghurt and finally a texture that isn't like phlem! Watching the video was helpful too, gave me the confidence for another try. I'll be making this again. Keen to try the yoghurt cheese too but not sure of its uses.
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This is now my first official TMX disaster. I wasn't going to attempt at all due to all of the problems noted on the forum but was also assured by other posts that it does work. I spent ages reading all of the posts and watching the videos before attempting. I used a digital thermometer to check the temps and left it to cool in the thermoserver overnight. The result - a chunky curdled looking top and then what looked like milk underneath. I tasted it to check if I could just strain the top but it tasted a bit funky to me. I'm not sure what went wrong but it all seems like a lot of hassle when it doesn't work. It's only the cost of yoghurt that spurred me to try in the first place but at least that yoghurt is edible. Any hints? :(
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Wow, you all make it sound so complicated lol! with thermometers e.t.c, I have never had a fail from the recipe in the indian cook book (wish i could post it on here) its so easy and only uses fresh milk and some yogurt as the starter. then i put it in a thermos flask over night all good! :)
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This is now my first official TMX disaster. I wasn't going to attempt at all due to all of the problems noted on the forum but was also assured by other posts that it does work. I spent ages reading all of the posts and watching the videos before attempting. I used a digital thermometer to check the temps and left it to cool in the thermoserver overnight. The result - a chunky curdled looking top and then what looked like milk underneath. I tasted it to check if I could just strain the top but it tasted a bit funky to me. I'm not sure what went wrong but it all seems like a lot of hassle when it doesn't work. It's only the cost of yoghurt that spurred me to try in the first place but at least that yoghurt is edible. Any hints? :(
There are so many variables :-\ the yoghurt starter, cleanliness of the container that is holding the yoghurt. Movement of the thermoserver whilst it is resting etc etc etc. Sorry to hear it was a flop for you. I have had success every time since using a starter from cheeselinks ;)
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This is now my first official TMX disaster. I wasn't going to attempt at all due to all of the problems noted on the forum but was also assured by other posts that it does work. I spent ages reading all of the posts and watching the videos before attempting. I used a digital thermometer to check the temps and left it to cool in the thermoserver overnight. The result - a chunky curdled looking top and then what looked like milk underneath. I tasted it to check if I could just strain the top but it tasted a bit funky to me. I'm not sure what went wrong but it all seems like a lot of hassle when it doesn't work. It's only the cost of yoghurt that spurred me to try in the first place but at least that yoghurt is edible. Any hints? :(
It sounds like you got something like cottage cheese curds, separated from the whey. This sometimes happens if the optimal incubating temperature is not maintained for the full time the lacto bacteria require to fully develop in the milk.
When this happens you can mix the stuff with a whisk until it is again liquid and just keep it in a warm place for several hours. It won't spoil, as long as other bacteria have not been introduced to the milk.
What starter did you use?
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I used the Jalna pot set full fat yoghurt as the starter. I did think about mixing it and leaving it but as it had a good 16 hours I thought it might be a waste of time. So down the sink it went!!
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I was thinking of trying the cheeselinks starters, but not sure how 'thick' or 'thin' their yogurts turn out. We prefer a thicker spoonable yogurt (I buy Mundella in WA) - would the thick cheeselinks starter end up more like this - similar to a greek style. I suppose thicker is probably better unless I want drinking yougurt.
Has anyone tried these and noted a difference?
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I use the thick one Bonsai - that is the one you will want if you are used to Mundella ;)
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Thanks Kathryn - I'll give it a try
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The yogurt gods where at my place yesterday I made the best yogurt ever,
Thick and smooth and it was the 1st time with my own starter
It’s amazing how some times it works and other times it’s a flop
how many times can you use the starter?
ciao ciao
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Funny thing is fundj, I make at least 4-6kg a week and it works every time!! I think it is a case of what I do works for me - thank goodness :)
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My yoghurt making attempts are very hit and miss, I think partly because of the weather - often too cold, despite coddling my Thermoserver in a towel and insulated shopping bag. Can anyone comment on their experience with yoghurt makers? Not only Easiyo, but also on electric yoghurt makers?
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I have had mixed success with yoghurt so far despite my best intentions. Okaaay with HiLo milk, but "stringy" with skim milk, and using two different types of store bought yoghurts as my starters. I am not giving up on TM yoghurt though ... when I get around to it, I am going to order a "starter" online and see how that works. Will keep you posted.
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I only use full cream milk for yoghurt - I don't know if that would make a difference or not ???
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Funny that since buying my electric yoghurt incubator I haven't had a flop until yesterday. But I changed my technique so will be going back to the original method tomorrow ;D I love the incubator and the glass jars I bought that fit it perfectly. I just wish I had one that I could do more than a litre at a time in. I might look into one of those :)