Forum Thermomix
Questions Doubts and Requests => Questions? Technical Issues? The Survival Guide => Topic started by: caquince on June 14, 2010, 02:28:07 am
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Hello...
Learning a lot about making yogurt from you all - thanks! I have not made it yet, but trying to minimize my mistakes. Just a little confused about what I am supposed to put the yogurt into when it is cooked. They talk about a "yoghurtmaker" or a "thermos flask", but I am not familiar with either of these terms. Would anyone be able to enlighten me? What do you all use? I read somewhere that people just put it into the thermoserver, but don't know if it will work. Also, what is the best way to sterilize things? Just boiling water?
Thanks all!
-cq
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Speaking for myself thermoserver worked great. Just washing and scolded with boiling water works for me. Others are using the 'Easyo' thermos (insulated container to keep heat in) you buy from the supermarket to make the prepackaged yogurt (powder and add water) in sachets. All the best with it - Let us know how ya go. ;)
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This is a Yogurt making kit (http://www.cheeselinks.com.au/kityoghurt.html) available from Cheeselinks.
Less expensive is the "EasyYo" which is simply a container inside an insulating container (as noted by Nay-nay), which holds the milk that has been heated and cooled to the correct temp before adding the yogurt culture.
The EasyYo was developed in New Zealand and I have been told that it is widely available in Australia.
Here in the US there are numerous yogurt makers, both the insulated type and powered ones that supply the heat to maintain the desired temperature. They all perform the same task and usually with excellent results (as long as the directions are followed correctly).
I have and use both types - I consume a lot of yogurt and use it extensively in baking and cooking.
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I make yoghurt a couple of times a week and have not had a failure yet using my thermoserve ;)
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Thanks everyone...just going to give my thermoserve a try tomorrow for some yoghurt - here's hoping for a bit of luck!
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Hi Caquince, I had trouble with making the yoghurt at first. It was just too runny for our liking. My daughter added a bit of powdered milk to her batch and this has made all the difference. Now each batch is lovely and thick, rather like greek yoghut but a little tangier. I do set it over night in the thermosaver and the next morning spoon it into a pyrex dish that has a plastic seal. Good luck!!
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I use the thermoserver overnight then into another container into the fridge. If I want it thicker I strain it through a chux in the fridge for a day.
Gretchen
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So far I tried once and it was only slightly thicker than the milk that it started from...a little bit of a downer. I tried again and it seems to have done the same thing - it has not quite been 8 hours yet. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I am pretty sure that the Jalna biodynamic yoghurt that I have used is the right kind. Not sure if the temp is the factor. I have been using a thermometer, but maybe it is faulty or something. I did add slightly more milk powder, but did not make much difference. Maybe putting it in the fridge afterwards will make the difference. Fingers crossed. Could it be that it is too cold in my house??? I have it in the thermoserver with the lid on, but the house is only about 16...????
not giving up yet!!
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I don't have thermoserve but let me tell you my way Caquince
I leave it in TM bowl after I make it. I wrap TM bowl with a blanket and let it rest overnight
In the morning I put it in the containers and then into the fridge
There are a few yogurt recipes. They all work great. However I can say that Valerie's way gave me thicker results
(I usually make it with 1litre of whole milk and 120g yogurt)
You can check this out: http://www.superkitchenmachine.com/2009/2883/how-to-make-yogurt-thermomix.html
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So far I tried once and it was only slightly thicker than the milk that it started from...a little bit of a downer. I tried again and it seems to have done the same thing - it has not quite been 8 hours yet. I am not sure what I am doing wrong. I am pretty sure that the Jalna biodynamic yoghurt that I have used is the right kind. Not sure if the temp is the factor. I have been using a thermometer, but maybe it is faulty or something. I did add slightly more milk powder, but did not make much difference. Maybe putting it in the fridge afterwards will make the difference. Fingers crossed. Could it be that it is too cold in my house??? I have it in the thermoserver with the lid on, but the house is only about 16...????
not giving up yet!!
I have been having the same problem. My last 2 batches have just been thick milk! My first batch was most successful but the texture was quite stringy.
Cheeselinks.com.au said
In terms of procedures, one thing that you should be aware of is that if the milk is too cool when setting the yoghurt has a tendency to go ‘stringy’. If the milk is at or below 35 degrees when it is set this is a common problem. This is more common in winter than summer, as the outside temperature is cooler.
So I tried to keep it warmer the next couple of times but this didn't help. I've bought a new organic yogurt for starter so hopefully that will work.
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Yoghurt seems to be the most troublesome thing, works sometimes but not for everyone. Will we ever find a foolproof method so that everyone succeeds, everytime ??? ??? I have given up and reverted to buying it again.
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Hi Caquince. I made my first batch this week and like you I spent ages reading everyone's comments first. Fortunately it worked (this time at least) as it seems quite random. Sorry yours hasn't worked yet, it would be frustrating.
I used Barambah organic yoghurt (european pot set) and Valerie's method adjusted to 90 degrees. Plus I added in some organic powdered milk just to be sure (a bit less that what the EDC book suggests). I used Margaret river organic full cream non-homogenised milk. The yoghurt is not super thick and doesn't taste very tangy but its still really good and I am hoping that it will improve with each batch. I just used the thermoserver but covered it in a few tea towels, as it was cold overnight in my house, and let it set for about 7 hours. I only made a litre in case it didn't work, but that was plenty anyway.
Actually I did also add in some powdered acidopholis (sp?) that I have for my kids, as I really wanted to try everything, but I since read that too much starter can be a bad thing too.
I just tested it with my finger to make sure it wasn't too hot before I added my starter (a tip I got from here) as I could not find my thermometer.
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I just tested it with my finger to make sure it wasn't too hot before I added my starter (a tip I got from here) as I could not find my thermometer.
You would do better to test it on the inside of your wrist. Your fingers are not as sensitive to heat as that area. I know from experience that what seems lukewarm to my fingers can be ten to fifteen degrees hotter than I sense.
I recently learned that some of the dairy companies here in California have (because of some new rulings coming down from the FDA) been performing a secondary pasteurization following the manufacture of yogurt, Mexican "crema" (sour cream) and other fresh dairy products.
This renders the culture in the yogurt much less active than the regular process and I doubt one could get a good homemade yogurt using it as a base culture.
Noted is the extended shelf life of the dairy product. I saw one brand of yogurt at the market (WalMart) that had a sell-by date of Aug 5! That is three times as long as the "natural" product at the health food store.
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DH and I were discussing this last night and came up with the idea of putting the thermoserve in the (UNHEATED)oven or microwave -if you have one, to set the yoghurt as it would be a smaller area of air to keep warm around the thermoserver now that it is getting colder and hopefully it would help keep it warmer for longer. I am dreading a failure now though my house is pretty warm as all my windows face north and west (not so pleasant in the summer :-)))
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Two heads are definitely better than one Kathryn - good idea. Placed inside one of those thick, quilted pillow protectors might help too.
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One of my neighbors uses a thick pottery bowl as the container (covered with plastic wrap) and places it inside a small, inexpensive cooler. Most of these are very well insulated and hers helps to maintain the desired temp overnight.
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I can't understand the huge differences in success either! :-\ Mine comes out at a lovely consistency and I don't think I do anything you guys don't do. I heat it up to 80 let it cool til it doesn't register and heat it up to 37 again adding the starter, put it in Thermoserver that I heated up with hot water before hand and in this cold weather put it in the oven(cold) til morning (I do it before I go to bed).
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It's so thick and creamy that I can even turn it out on a plate. I show you these not to 'show off' ;) but to give you hope that if I can do it anyone can! So keep trying. ;D
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You have every right to 'show off' Nay-nay - that is a wonderful consistency. Perhaps you should write exactly how you do it, what you use etc step by step as this yoghurt making is not as easy as it sounds for some of us.
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Yep that is how mine turns out Nay and I do the same as you except as yet I haven't had to warm my Thermoserver or put it in the oven (even after DH & I had the conversation) though I dare say the weather will soon be here (apparently we have to WAIT AWHILE for winter here too ROFL) for me to have to do it as I too do it before I go to bed lol.
Hang in there everyone.
I just follow this recipe of Valerie's making sure that the 37olight DOES NOT register (so I know it is cool enough) before I heat it to 37o with my culture again.
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Wow Nay-nay! Until I saw your photos I thought that I had consistency!! :o
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More information on yoghurt making.
http://www.wikihow.com/Make-Yogurt
Also the little electric incubators mentioned earlier in the thread look good for little expense.
http://www.easycook.com.au/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=11&products_id=9
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Yes JD - Faffa is right - all I do is follow valerie's instructions. ;)
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I've ordered an Easy cook yoghurt maker same as in the link above, though I got it from another place for $48, they are supposedly posting it tomorrow so hopefully it will arrive on Friday or Monday. I'm ready for another lot of yoghurt so will wait for it to arrive. Of course will still cook in the TM but will incubate in this machine. Will report back on how it works and if it's worth it for anyone who is interested. :)
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JulieO I will be interested in your results when you get your yogurt maker.I keep looking at these machines.I can buy something similar here in the UK.
http://www.lakeland.co.uk/electric-yoghurt-maker/F/C/cooking-baking/C/cooking-baking-yoghurt-making/product/3440_3441/pgs/19
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It looks almost identical doesn't it? I'm so hoping it works as I have had such mixed results doing it the other way (as reported in the relevant thread). Keeping fingers crossed ;D
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Cornish - I received the incubator and I made 3 litres over the weekend trialling 3 different methods.
There are 2 methods that come with the machine and you can see them in that link I posted and the third was the one I usually do (heating milk on 90C for 15 mins. cooling to 37C, then adding starter and heating further 20 mins on 37C. Poured it into the supplied container and put that into the incubator, turned it on and left for 7 hours.
After doing a taste test of all 3 and for how they set, my favourite is my usual method, nice and thick and so creamy, just delicious. The next best was surprisingly the UHT milk, though that took longer than 7 hours to set, I left it overnight and by the morning it had set. I didn't touch it, just put in the fridge and left it alone until this morning where I took this photo to give an idea.
After making my own yoghurt since getting the TM, I couldn't think of buying it any more and the only hassle that I've had is in the incubation period, is it warm enough, too warm, etc. Sometimes it has set, other times not. This has taken that angst away and I think it worth the small price.
Last night after tea, I served a small pot of the yoghurt with a spoonful of passionfruit curd swirled through that I'd made just for this and it was so delicious.
The other lot I made I'm going to strain through muslin and make into Greek style so it won't be wasted. :)
(http://i260.photobucket.com/albums/ii26/ragdoll128/misc/IMG_4260.jpg)
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That looks perfect JulieO. Well done.
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Good work Nay-nay & JulieO - both great results indeed. :-* :-* :-* :-*
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JulieO that yogurt looks fabulous.Thankyou so much for doing different recipes to see which passed the taste test.Very interesting about UHT milk, wouldn't normally think to go down that road to get yogurt.Just need to see if my credit card can take the strain and somewhere to keep it in the kitchen!
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Thanks JulieO, as usual you get the best out of your kitchen appliances. Cannot say they are a waste of money in your household, that yoghurt looks amazing.
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Cornish Cream, if you do get one, here is the best price I've seen for it and where I bought mine from. They were very quick in delivery too. :)
http://www.insanedeals.com.au/easy-cook-easy-yoghurt-maker-p-1438.html
Thanks Judy, I do love my gadgets and get a lot of enjoyment out of using them. :D
Also thanks Cookie and Thermomixer for your encouragement. ;D
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JulieO thanks for the information about the best price for the yogurt maker but living in the U.K I will have to shop around here.
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No worries, I missed that bit of info. Good luck in locating a similar one. :D
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Ok I have read through everyones replies...I made my first attempt a couple of days ago...I used the lights on the TMX (must get myself a thermometer) mine certainly does NOT look like any of those photos...it is thick milk...more like oobleck (goop). I added strawberry jam and white choc and the kids LOVED it! I don't like yoghurt so I can't say if it was any good LOL!
So...my error was it the hot milk was too cool when I added the yoghurt?? I put it in the fridge after...should I have kept it warm not cool??
Also...how long should it last???
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I have not made yoghurt but a friend who does make it often said that she checks the temperature with another thermometer as (get ready to gasp!) the thermomix doesn't seem to be accurate with the temperature and that sometimes it is more like 60 than 37. Since she has been measuring the temp with a seperate thermometer she hasn't looked back.
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Ok I have read through everyones replies...I made my first attempt a couple of days ago...I used the lights on the TMX (must get myself a thermometer) mine certainly does NOT look like any of those photos...it is thick milk...more like oobleck (goop). I added strawberry jam and white choc and the kids LOVED it! I don't like yoghurt so I can't say if it was any good LOL!
So...my error was it the hot milk was too cool when I added the yoghurt?? I put it in the fridge after...should I have kept it warm not cool??
Also...how long should it last???
After you have heated the milk to the correct temp to convert the enzymes, you then cool it down to the temp where the yogurt culture can live and propagate. It then has to be kept at the incubation temperature for at least 8 hours for the culture to develop.
I posted the following in another thread:
Valerie's Yogurt & Yogurt Cheese (http://www.forumthermomix.com/index.php?topic=2302.120)
"The "trick" to yogurt with good consistency (the gluey and stringy stuff means some organism that is not compatible with the casein in the milk has contaminated the culture) is first heating the milk to the temp where the protein strands are able to relax and this is
82° C.
Then cooling the milk to 45° C and then adding the culture and then maintaining the mile at a fairly constant temperature above 25° C for a minimum of 8 hours - I know some recipes specify shorter times but in my experience the consistency is not as good and I usually extend it to 12 hours, which for me produces a better flavor.
If you are having difficulty using store-bought yogurt, which has to be "pure" with absolutely no additives, no preservatives, do try the yogurt cultures from cheeselinks and I am sure you will be much happier.
You can save some of the finished yogurt to make more but it does have to be re-started after about four batches.
I buy my cultures here in the US from the New England Cheesemaking company and get perfect results every time. I do make repeat batches, using about 1/4 cup of the yogurt, mixed with some of the whey, which I save, but start with a new culture after three batches (2 liters in a batch)."
You should be able to keep the yogurt in the fridge for at least a week - I use sterilized glass jars and have had no problems keeping it for three weeks but my dairy fridge is kept colder than most.
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Ok, so I am thinking of trying to make the yoghurt sometime soon, esp as I have slowly acquired the taste for more of the "live" yoghurts, - which are just too expensive to buy.
So reading all the info I can find.
I think I will try to thermoserve at the moment, but is the easycook easy yoghurt maker worth the investment? I found the cheapest price to be from http://www.pricepirate.com.au/EASYCOOK_EYM_YOGHURT_MAKER_p/eym.htm. which if it does make yoghurt making a successful option, would work itself out cost wise eventually.
Also what is the best sort of starter? is it worth getting the starters from http://shop.cheeselinks.com.au/Yoghurt-Making-Kits-c41/ or is getting an actual yoghurt (with no preservatives additives etc) a better way to go?
Sorry to hijack the discussion
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Jules I have been making the yogurt form the EDC since I bought my Thermomix and have never had a failure using the thermoserver for incubation overnight. I also use another thermometer to make sure it is no more tha 37 degrees before adding the previous yogurt. My first lot I used a no additives pot set yogurt from Dairy Farmers and since then I have just used my own yogurt and it get's better every time. Really thick and creamy. Only once it was a bit watery and I strained it for a few hours in a sieve lined with chux I think it was because it was a bit cool here. I also start this way to make Valerie's yogurt cheese.
Gretchen
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I read somewhere that every 4th (or so) time you had to start from a "new" starter - hence asking about the bags of starter stuff...
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I have read it also but have never done it. Probably a good reason to do so and I am sure someone will enlighten us. :-)) :-))
Gretch
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I read somewhere that every 4th (or so) time you had to start from a "new" starter - hence asking about the bags of starter stuff...
Interesting, I hadn't heard that before and haven't done it and mine is still a success. I make at least 4 litres of milk into yoghurt a week ;) ;)
(with Spud Shed that is about $4.00 for 4kg Jules :D :D :D) Cheap as.
I only use my Thermoserve as well
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(with Spud Shed that is about $4.00 for 4kg Jules :D :D :D) Cheap as.
I dont think we could use 1kg a week have alone 4 :P But yes at roughly 90c/kg of yoghurt - I wont be complaining (well plus flavouring it - as I dont think I could eat it plain :P)
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I've had no luck with yoghurt. :-\ It comes out stringy and runny, just like oobleck, which means contamination. After doing the Cheese Making Workshop, I would now sterilise all the containers, spoons etc with a solution of Milton (http://www.milton-tm.com/sterilising_tablets.html) as we did in our workshp. We also used UHT Milk to make Quarg and UHT Cream to make Mascarpone.
I also think that the Yoghurt I use as a starter may have had some sort of treatment which is why it's so slow to react. I can't buy the plain unflavoured Jalna anywhere here, so I use Famer's Union. I'm planning to buy the AB Starter from Cheeselinks and try that.
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I use the starter cultures available here in the US - there are several brands, some available in health food stores.
Mostly I use the cultures from New England Cheesemaking Supply, which is very similar to Cheeselinks in Australia and which a friend of mine uses.
After the first batch from the new culture, I use it for three or four additional batches and if I make yogurt cheese, save the whey and mix some of it with the saved portion which I use for the culture. Seems to work better for me.
Sometimes I forget and use the entire batch and have to start over but as far as I am concerned, the cost of using a new culture each time is negligible if I get a perfect result. I would rather spend the money on the culture rather than waste a gallon of milk. (or half-gallon if I make a smaller batch)
For those who have good results with plain store-bought yogurt, by all means continue to do what works for you. However you do have to be sure the product is entirely natural with no additives and no additional processing, otherwise you won't have a desirable result.
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For the first time in about 8 months of yoghurt making, after the 8 or so hours, it was still just milk. So I let it sit for a further 6 hours, and voila - just needed some more time for some reason. Maybe the cold weather.
Glad I tried the extra time. Hope this helps someone.
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My yoghurt making is never consistent. Sometimes I get lovely firm yoghurt and the next time 'slimey' yoghurt. I sterilise everything with boiling water, perhaps I will use Milton next time.
I love to add dried fruit to mine and leave it in there so it gets all puffed up and sort of sweetens the yoghurt.
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Yes I use the Milton sterilizing tablets for all the stuff that needs it. They are usually in the baby section. :)
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JulieO I am considering getting the yoghurt maker you have. I am also planning to buy some culture from cheese links. Has anyone bought from them? I am looking at the aby stronger flavor and thick set. I would love to hear opinions. Also it looks like to buy it as a pack with the culture it is cheaper than buying them separately from the place you linked JO. So if I am going to get it I would like to do that rather than waste postage. Opinions???
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If you can save money why not. I haven't tried any of the starters, I have only used pot set yoghurt, so will be interested in what anyone else can tell us too. :)
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WOOOHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOo i tried again...I wrapped the thermoserver in a towel adn left it on the bench nearlly 24 hours...and its WORKED YAY :) :) :) :)
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I think that means you are one happy chappy Leo081977 :D :D Well done.
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Congratulations. To achieve the perfect yoghurt is indeed a success. Perhaps I need to give mine more time.
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I've been making my own yoghurt since reading Valerie's blog. I've tweaked it a little though. I start by grinding about 40g of sugar add then adding 2 litres of milk and 1/2 cup of skim milk powder. I follow Valerie's instructions and add the started yoghurt to it once it has cooled enough. Once the weather started to get cooler I noticed that it took longer to set in the thermoserve so started wrapping it in a towel.
Today's yoghurt I added some cherries. I pitted and quartered the cherries and added about a 2 or 3 tablespoons of sugar (I never measure) and heated them until the sugar had dissolved. Once it had all cooled I added it to the yoghurt. Now we have Cherry Yoghurt. ;D ;D
Every now and again I use a new yoghurt as a starter. Not every 4th batch but every month or so. We also make a batch of yoghurt twice a week.
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My mother always made yogurt when I was little girl, when I left home I took the old brevil yogurt maker with me. At 39 I still make about 3 - 4 lt a week I do every thing with yogurt.
About 5 years ago I was recommended to try a culture from cheese link and have never looked back!!! a packet of culture lasts me 12 months. Depending on what I want to do with it I vary the amount of powdered milk to get a creamier or thicker style of yogurt.
I heat the milk (I use UHT) and 1/4 to 1 cup of milk powder in TM to 90 dec and let cool to 37 dec. This depasturisers it.
Then I add about 5 grains of culture to the milk and put in my new yogurt maker (the old brevil still worked and made individual pots - my new one from cheese link make 1 big batch.
The other web site for tips is http://www.greenlivingaustralia.com.au/yoghurt_culture.html
From cheeslink at the moment they have a special
Type C1 yoghurt starter
$20.00
Sterile bottle to store yoghurt starter
$1.00
Easy Yoghurt Maker
$55.00
Regular Price
$76.
DISCOUNT
-$5.00
LOW PRICE
$71.00
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Am I the only one that couldn't make it consistent and decided esiyo was maybe not as good but soooo much easier?
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No Zan, you're not. Mine is still not how it should be. It freezes and makes good icecream or I eat it.
Thanks for your prices berringamababe. I may have to look at that way to do my yoghurt.
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Good to see you back berringamababe. Thanks for the links :-* :-* :-* I have a yoghurt maker from about 30 years ago :o :o