Forum Thermomix
Questions Doubts and Requests => Questions? Technical Issues? The Survival Guide => Topic started by: judydawn on March 05, 2010, 08:56:04 am
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I used one of my new bread tins today to make isi's normal bread as a loaf as I have had success both as a loaf and as rolls before. I tried to find information on how to prepare the tin beforehand but couldn't find anything except 'flour it'.
I washed it in detergent, dried it and tried to flour it but the flour didn't stick to the sides or bottom at all (as I expected it wouldn't) and I wasn't sure if I should oil it or not. I placed a piece of baking paper in the bottom though to prevent that sticking but it was a disaster. When it cooked I couldn't get it out of the tin. I ran a knife around the sides and accidentally cut into the bread whilst doing so and when I finally got it out using an egg lifter, it sort of fell apart because I had cut into the sides. Help, what do I do next time to my bread tin? The bread was perfect by the way albeit slightly mangled.
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I use baking paper on every side with mine or it is always well greased and floured. The main point I have always been told is to never wash them in between uses. You can wipe them out but not wash. Guess it's a bit like seasoning a wok. :)
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JD as C said you are not supposed to wash them ??? sorry!! I have not done anything to mine except wipe it out with a damp cloth before the first time I used mine and I haven't done anything with them since unless they have something like seeds in them which I just shake out. Mine come out eaily every single time - even the wet mixes like the seed loaf from the EDC
I hope it is ok. Maybe leave it in the oven while it is cooling from cooking something else to get rid of any extra moisture.
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That's good to know as I had a run of loafs breaking in half as the bottom half stayed in the tin. I used macadamia oil as the instructions said not to use olive oil....
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JD, I think you are supposed to paint them with oil and heat them in a very hot oven. It is called 'seasoning' them. A few tricks that I have learned....... use canola oil to spray your tins. It seems to prevent the dough sticking better than other oils. I also put seeds or rolled oats in the base and tip it around to cover the sides and get into the corners, I just wipe out the tins if I want to change the seeds, and then spray again. We have all had things stick and it is very upsetting, I love the look of a loaf when it comes out of the tin clean. This is something we all aim for. I'm not sure if you can season after you have already cooked in the tin. I think i would just spray very generously with canola and sprinkle with sesame seeds. i have used this method with isi's buttermilk and potato bread which is very wet, and it didn't stick. Others may have other ideas. Work out what you think is most likely to work for you. ;)
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Thanks for the tips girls. I am ticked off that there were no instructions with a $33 loaf tin. Might spray it AND line it next time to be sure it drops out nicely. The seed trick sounds good too Chookie. The smaller tin is still as I bought it so that one definately won't be getting washed. I even came to the computer to see if you were online Chookie and I was going to PM you whilst the bread was rising but I see you were busy in your kitchen most of the day.
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I'm with Meagan and never wash mine and don't put anything into it except for the dough.
I rather suspect it depends on what your bread tin is made from - do you have a manufacturer's name that you could research on the web? You might find some hints there - or perhaps contact the shop you bought it from. 2 friends of mine run a wonderful cookshop and I always get stuff from there as it's great quality and they are full of knowledge about all their products. Shame you don't live closer :D
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No name on mine Katya. It is a heavy tin, black on the outside and silver on the inside. Weird that it had no manufacturer's name or paperwork to go with it.
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What brand are yours Meagan? They sounds good. :)
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JD, that sounds like the same ones that All About Bread sell. I have two different ones, one is black (All About Bread) on the outside and one silver. I haven't washed either. I don't oil, line or flour them and have never had any sticking problems! I just wipe them out each time.
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What brand are yours Meagan? They sounds good. :)
Chelsea they are from all about bread - the same as MJ's. I have the ones that are silver on the outside, with the slide on lid to make a block loaf if I want to (which I imagine I will need to when my boys start school and want bread that looks like everyone elses!!) They are the same as professional bread tins with the folded edges. Not cheap ( can't remember exactly how much) but worth every penny. When I bought them I was told not to wash them at all, ever!!!
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If I have a failure I tend to go back into my box but I have to use these tins now that I have paid so much for them. Will work out which path to go down when next I bake a loaf - thanks everyone. :-*
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I try to use Gladbake generously wherever possible, and will re-use it as many times as possible. Am really lazy on washing the Tefal (or similar coated tins/slides) unless there is a drip or two but would try to "chip it off".
I fail on washing frypans...how to get a frypan clean that has had something frying in it without giving it a bit of a going over with at least some detergent is beyond me...I have totally ruined them.
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I'm saving up for some bread tins so I will look for those ones. Thanks MJ and Meagan. :)
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My favorite bread tin at the moment is a $2.50 one from Aldi, although I have to admit that the proper bread tins do cook the crust better,
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My favorite bread tin at the moment is a $2.50 one from Aldi, although I have to admit that the proper bread tins do cook the crust better,
I feel better now - that's what I've been using for a while. No one here would notice the difference if I bought more expensive pans.
By the way in case anyone is interested, they have 50g packets of dried shitake mushrooms and other dried mushrooms at the moment in their specials section. And my shop still have the porcini 20g packets ($2.79) from a while ago so I stocked up today. JD - I could post you some...
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Cathy79, I hate to tell you this, but after spending many, many $ on expensive porcini mushrooms, they can be replaced with the less expensive chinese dried ones. I put some in the TMX and grind them up and when I want some mushroom flavor just add to whatever.
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Cathy79, I hate to tell you this, but after spending many, many $ on expensive porcini mushrooms, they can be replaced with the less expensive chinese dried ones. I put some in the TMX and grind them up and when I want some mushroom flavor just add to whatever.
Better to know now than never. Thanks Chookie!
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Because of your information Chookie, I have declined Cathy's kind offer of sending me some cheaper porcinis - cheap dried ones for me from now on. I wouldn't have wasted my money on those expensive bread tins either if I had read of your $2.50 favourite tin :-)) :-)) :-)) Think I am going to have to ask you before I ever buy anything again Chookie ;D ;D ;D :-* :-*
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Thanks Chookie & others. You can buy pre-seasoned tins, which means they have already had the oil/heat combo. A bit like seasoning woks.
Then don't wash - just oil well first.
If you do wash the need to re-season them.
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I've only just started making bread and use some random loaf shape tin I found in the back of my cupboard.
Buttered and floured (kinda like what you do for a souffle dish) and the loaf just plonks right out!! Easy peasy.
Oh, I wash it or dishwasher it too.
:)
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Yes KL, I use all sorts of tins, depending on the end result I want. Well covered in Canola oil, no probs. I also use my cast iron cook ware, but do the spray with canola trick and then sprinkle plenty of sesame seeds or rolled oats in to cover bottom and sides.
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I find that my bread tins that are silver on the inside seem to release the bread easily, but the one I have that is dark inside is a real horror. Both were bought at the same shop but are vastly different sizes.
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I find that my bread tins that are silver on the inside seem to release the bread easily, but the one I have that is dark inside is a real horror. Both were bought at the same shop but are vastly different sizes.
Interesting observation cookie! Mine are both silver inside.
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Mine came from a dedicated bread making shop here, and it is very silver. The edge is rolled outwards over a piece of rectangular wire that maintains the shape of the top. The corners are folded. It's quite the work of art :P Was about $35 I think. I don't have to do anything to this tin. It must be non-stick, but it doesn't have a black coating or anything. I washed it the first time, but it kinda leaked rusty water from the corners then :o So now we just wipe the crumbs out. No paper, no oil, no flour, just the dough, and then I tip the bread out. Absolutely zero issues. I love it :) That's why I asked for it for Christmas ;D
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All mine a bread tins bought from Kitchen Warehouse, just all different sizes. If I buy anymore I will make sure they have silver inside.
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My bread tins come from a a shop for professionals and they were all $35 plu,s I think. The advisory baker there told me never to do anything to them including washing them and I haven't . I just wipe them out when needs be. I have never had a problem with them. I often release the bread just before it is finished and put it back in the oven to crisp up. All depends on the type of bread I am making.
Gretchen
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MIne are silver on the inside too ;D
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I have just been given my first bread tin (thanks to my MIL). It was just over $30, from a kitchen store, is silver inside and out and doesn't come with any instructions. The ladies at the shop suggested to my MIL that I wash the tin in hot soapy water and then brush it with oil before use. I am thinking however (after reading this thread) that I should season it and then try just putting the dough in without oil. Is this taking too much of a risk though? Perhaps I should line it? Oh I don't know! ??? ;D
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Chelsea, I would play it safe and fully line it - it is not worth ruining a loaf by trusting it to just fall out. That's what I am going to do with my tins. I saw those all silver ones when I got my bread tins which were the heavy black ones with the silver lining but I wouldn't believe anything they told me in those shops as I really don't think they know for sure. Just my opinion and experience.
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Chelsea - yes, as shop assistant said - wash thoroughly, dry well and then coat liberally with oil before baking for a while to season it. Then you shouldn't have to line it.
If you wash the tins (and sometimes you have to) then season again with oil and you'll be right.
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Yippee. The loaf just fell out of the tin!!! Now I just need to work on the loaf. More yeast to help the wholegrain flour rise up a bit I think!!! :)
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What's the recipe mix like Chelsea? For around 600g of flour (total) you should need about 1 3/4 tsp yeast. Using about 1 tbsp sugar will help it to rise much quicker. Sugarless, French style loaves take AGES to rise because sugar is yeast food, and without it the job is a slow one. Have you got at least 1/4 baker's white flour? You could try using a couple of tbsp of gluten flour - I always add this to my wholemeal loaves to make them rise better.
This is my silver breadmaker's shop bread tin that needs nothing doing to it (not that I got instructions or anything, I just didn't do anything to it, and it works!!!). There's a thick rectangular piece of wire that form the rim, and the rest of the tin is fold around that and envelopes on itself at the sides. When it has been washed, it leaked rusty coloured water, so I won't do that again :D
(http://i276.photobucket.com/albums/kk24/s0152434/Toowoomba223.jpg)
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A tip my uncle (who was a baker) taught me was to place washed tins straight back into the still warm oven upside down on the rack to dry. Never had a rusty one since! ;)
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Depome, I notice you've put up a lot of hints, and several relating to wholemeal bread. Thank you so much!
Do you have a wholemeal Thermomix recipe you can share with us? :-* :-* :-*
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What's the recipe mix like Chelsea?
My tin looks the same as yours Depome. They are very sturdy and heavy and although I've only used it once I am so happy with it. My recipe was based on one of Isi's recipes (everyday or normal loaf???). I used 650g flour (150g wholegrain spelt and 500g organic bread flour) and a half cup of seeds. I find I normally need 2 tsp of dried yeast for 500g organic bread flour in most recipes and a little more yeast when substituting in some TMX milled wholegrain flour and seeds. I'm not keen on using refined sugar in my breads but I use rapadura in Isi's recipe. :)
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Sugar helps bread, a LOT, both to rise, and to improve flavour. French bread is divine too, of course, but it takes a long time to get good results (many hours that is, not years ;) ).
You're welcome Cathy. I've been making bread for a few years now, and nearly always wholemeal so I've learned a lot. I don't generally make the dough in the TMX because the nicer doughs are too moist for the TMX. It wouldn't be hard to try reducing the water that I use a little to make it work in the TMX though.
1 3/4 tsp dried yeast
450g wholemeal flour
150g white bakers flour
1 tbsp sugar
1 1/2 tbsp dried milk powder
25g butter
2 tsp salt
410g water
Currently I'm adding 1-2 tbsp gluten flour too, and often replace about 20g of water with 20g olive oil. The fats are really important as they help to preserve the bread. When you're making an extra large loaf (this recipe is) AND it's wholemeal, using fats really helps to extend the life of the bread which might otherwise feel heavy and dry quite quickly.
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Thank you so much Depome, I'll give this a go over the weekend.
A couple of questions though - what does the dried milk powder do? I'd like to stay away from that if possible.
Also, if adding olive oil, is that as well as the butter?
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Thanks Depome. I made baguettes yesterday and am torn between using/not using the TMX. Want to because i have paid so much for it, and i get good results, but I made it for years without, mainly no-knead.
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Cathy, the instruction books for my (2 = greedy!) breadmakers both say that milk is primarily for nutrients (protein) but also flavour. There is no other function so you can omit it easily. Many bread recipes call for fresh milk, but if you were using a breadmaker on timer mode then you obviously shouldn't put fresh milk in to it. I think they just specify powdered milk in the recipes to make it easier.
TMXer, I've been making pizza dough in the TMX a lot more. It's not as elastic as that in the breadmaker, but I'm happy with a 2 min need and no resting :P Too lazy to wait for it to rise and then bash it down again.
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I think pizza dough is one of those things that seems to do well without extra proofing.
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I saw that same tin as the picture in Robins Kitchen last week. I've been unhappy with our bread coming out of the breadmaker, as the bottom corner crusts are way too hard and have to be cut off & thrown away (the chooks get them, may keep them in future to make breadcrumbs) so am thinking of going back to baking the bread in the oven after the dough has been made.
I thought they looks a little small for a standard "sandwich" size though. I'd prefer a time that can make a square loaf, as they need to fit in sandwich bags for lunch. Oh, and they were $29 in Robins.
Russell.
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I love my black on the outside silver on the inside bread tin. It works a treat every time. I just wipe it out. I've been using mine for about 2 years and worth the money. I think it was only $23 at a catering supply shop, but I've had friends buy the same at Robyns for around $30.
I do a no knead loaf in mine. (5 cups unbleached flour, 1/2 teaspoon yeast, 1 1/2 teaspoons salt, 2 1/2 cups warm water. I mix it and let it sit in a large bowl till it doubles (about 2 hours in our climate) then put it in the tin till it is almost at the top (another hour) and pop in the oven at 220 for 13 mins and then 180 for 23 mins. It keeps really moist and will pass muster for 2 days for lunches.
I do sometimes use some wholemeal and some seeds. But the straight unbleached is presently cutting it in the grade 1 lunch set! My daughter feels like it is christmas when she has bought bread. I did find out that it is because 'yours takes longer to eat, Mummy and then I don't get to play as much'.
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Russell, my tin (presumably the photo that you're referring to) is actually a jumbo size. It makes a huge loaf! The base of it is certainly sandwich loaf sized, but it is a very long tin that makes bread AT LEAST as long as supermarket loaves. I make tall loaves too. I cut my girls' sandwiches in half, stack them, and put them in a zip lock bag. I can only fit my bread into Tupperware's sandwich boxes by cutting them in half and stacking them.
The height of your loaf is almost totally under your control. I think proper bread tins only vary in length, don't they?
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The height of your loaf is almost totally under your control. I think proper bread tins only vary in length, don't they?
Thanks. I went into a few shops at lunch today. target, a kitchenware shop and Myers. Only Myers had bread tins. I ended up getting one even though it is a little short for my liking, i'd prefere the longer one like you mentioned yours is. The one I got does come witha lid though. it's 20cm L x 11cm W x 10cm H, which I think is probably close to our current loaf sizes we make in the breadmaker. It's non-stick coated all over, and was only $17. I figure if it produces a decent loaf, it'd be good to do two loaves at once with two tins.
Russell.
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I think I've heard that you get lids with proper sandwich loaf tins, so that could prove very useful for your requirements anyway.
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Hello everyone,
I am not sure if any one is still following this topic or not..
I am a new member here and have read with interest the posts on bread tins etc.
I am a man who started making my own bread from scratch 30 plus years ago and still do. ( I am 73)
I have gone through quite a few tins in that time. Plain tin ones and coated. While the coated ones last a bit longer, I prefer the plain ones. Don't know why. I just feel more comfortable with them
I season the new tins much the same way as I did with my cast iron pots and pans ( which you never wash---just a good wipe out by the way, as this develops a wonderful carbon coating) Just oil them and put them in the oven at around 400degrees for about 30 minutes.
I always spray my tins with Canola oil now before baking and never have any trouble just upturning them and letting the loaves just fall out.
I always just give a light washing afterwards and let them dry in the still warm oven.
They still collect a little rust film sometimes ...but that wipes out easily before using and spraying
For French and Italian bread I use a cookie sheet lightly sprayed and with cornmeal sprinkled on it.
I also use this, lightly sprayed but no cornmeal, for dinner rolls placed 26 mm apart (1 inch) so that they nicely touch when they rise
For pizza I use a round coated pan with 6 mm (1/4 inch) holes over the bottom. It is the size of a large pizza and works beautifully and produces a good crust as the heat comes through the holes. I prefer that to a pizza stone.
For pita bread I like to use the racks that you would use to dry normal bread on. I put them crosswise on the oven shelf acks. This gives square openings that will allow the heat to come through and puff them up nicely.
Hope this is of use to someone out there
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jegman4, What a great description of preparing bread tins. Welcome to the Forum. How about a fav. recipe?
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Thanks jegman4. That information is appreciated. AS Chookie says, how about a favourite recipe?
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Chookie and Cookie
Cute names
Favorite recipe?? Thats a first,...never been asked that before.
Are you asking about bread recipes or general recipes? Gotta think in each case
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jegman4, also an interesting name ;D ;D ;D. We will look with interest at anything you have to offer. I initially thought Bread. but then this is my passion and I have been making bread for as long as you. If you have some other recipes we will all be interested so start thinking. ;D ;D
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I don't have a proper bread tin yet, but when I use my dutch oven or my ceramic loaf tin I paint it with olive oil and sprinkle some fine semolina in and they are perfect.
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Well, Here iswhat I came up with ladies.
It is one I make about twice a year. It is delicious and well worth the trouble.
My 86 year mother-in-law adores it and my wife and I do too. The rest of the family doesnt get it too often...theres a whole lot of them.....they lke it too much....
I make it into a long loaf rather than a round one as the slices are easier to handle.
I like to cool it, slice it, put the slices on a cookie sheet separated by wax paper then freeze them.
After freezing I puthem into ziplock bags. The slices keep apart and we take them out as needed. I have kept tis bread frozen for 3 months and it is just as good each time I use it.
Dark Pumpernickel bread
Ingredients
2 ¼ cups of boiling water
¼ cup of plain cocoa (not the sweet stuff)
½ cup of Balsamic vinegar
½ cup of dark molasses
2 TBS of Caraway seeds
2 tsp of instant coffee granules
2 ¼ TBS of dry yeast (I use regular yeast, not fast rising)
½ cup of warm water (about 110 degrees F)
1 TBS sugar
1 TBS salt
4 cups of dark rye flour
1 cup of unprocessed wheat bran
2 ½ cups of whole-wheat flour
1½ cups of all -purpose white flour
Some cornmeal for the tray
Method
Combine boiling water, cocoa, vinegar, molasses, caraway seeds and coffee in a large bowl;
cool to 105-110 degrees F.
In a small bowl, dissolve sugar and yeast in the warm water; let stand 10 minutes.
Add the yeast mixture to the cocoa mixture (be sure that the cocoa mixture has cooled enough)
Add the rye flour, bran and salt, and mix well.
Add in the whole-wheat flour and then the white flour a little at a time. If you have a dough hook, use it.
If not you may have to get your hands in here. The dough must be fairly firm and pull from bowl.
Do not add too much flour or it will be too stiff to rise and will crumble. You want it to feel sticky but not
enough to have any dough stick to your fingers when you pull them away.
Pull the dough from the bowl onto a floured board and knead for approx. 5-6 minutes (if you used a dough
hook previously), if you did not, then knead for 9-10 minutes
It should not however, be kneaded to the point where it begins to tear, but it should be smooth.
Lightly oil a large bowl, put the dough in and turn it over so that it has a light coating of the oil. Cover the bowl with a cloth or plastic wrap and let rise in a warm place until completely doubled, about 2½ hours.
Punch it down, and turn out onto the board again. Roll it to press the air out, and then form into a long, or round loaf. Sprinkle the cornmeal over a good cookie tray. Place the loaf on the tray, cover with a cloth again let rise again about hour at least until doubled in size.
Bake at 350 degrees for 45-55 minutes (The bottom will sound hollow when tapped)
Let cool down before slicing (tastes better that way)
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We've been using a bread tin we bought from Myers about 6 months ago. It's non-stick, witha slide-on lid. We spray it with spray-on canola each time and it slides out easy. Then just wipe it down with a paper towel and it's ready to go the next time.
It's perfect for sandwiches, as the loaf rises and fills to the lid perfectly, so we have a nice square loaf when it comes out, baked evenly on all sides.
Unfortunately though, the non-stick coating is starting to come off at the top a bit where it slides on & off. I went to Myers 2 weeks ago to get another one, so we could do 2 loaves at once, and they were having a sale, so I ended up buying 2 new ones for $22 ;D
Russell.
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jegman4, this looks absolutely delicious and i will definitely be making it. Thanks taking he trouble for posting it.
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Jegman4, thank you. The recipe does indeed look delicious. It sounds like my kind of bread. I'll need to boost my rye flour supply before I do it.