Forum Thermomix
Welcoming Center, Management and General Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: ~Narelle~ on September 09, 2009, 11:59:56 pm
-
Hi
just wondering what the Aus TMX users think about the mandatory fortification with folic acid of wheat flour for bread making (and therefore will be in lots of other things bought in a bakery) that becomes law on Sunday?
Is it going to change anything you buy/do etc?
I don't like the idea of it, more additives etc and some nutritionists think that pg ladies (the target audience) are going to need supplements as well. I would hate to see neural defects rise cause women relied on wheat flour.
So wdyt?
Edited: I wrote fornication instead of fortification in the title!
-
hehe at the fornication
i think it's shocking. i cannot believe it is going to happen. so glad i don't eat bought bread, though unfortunately my kids won't eat homemade bread :(
-
My kids are the same Karen. So unavoidable unless we go organic bread and that is not high on their wish list either!
-
wow :o I had no idea!!
-
I did either Meagan until my local flour supplier told me. Here is the link to Food Standards http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/newsroom/factsheets/factsheets2009/mandatoryfolicacidfo4389.cfm
Interestingly NZ have backed out of it. I wish it was not mandatory but optional.
-
It makes me shudder just thinking about it. Cyndi O'Meara talks about food at the present (packaged food) as being the "greatest human experiment of all time" and I think this is yet another example. It's homemade bread or hungry for us (the kids are still too little to put up a good defense).
:)
-
I am really undecided as my brother and his wife had a beautiful daughter born with spina bifida who only survived 5 weeks. Hopefully folate will help others from this nasty problem in babies. But then on the other hand I don't want folate in my bread as I'm not really sure what it could do to me and my family. At the moment we're only having 5 seed bread but will the folate go into Baker's Flour?
-
will the folate go into Baker's Flour?
Yep that's what it is going in to. It is going in to wheat flour for bread making. So anything that is made with bread flour will have it. So premixes, muffins from the bakery etc. pastries etc.
So sorry to hear about your niece Cookie :'(
-
Thank you Narelle, it was about 10 or so years now. It was weird, she was such a beautiful baby, as though she wasn't to be here for long, which was true. All the family have lots of photos though.
-
On the web page (from the link above) it says that Australian millers are rquired to add folic acid (a form of the B vitamin folate) to wheat flour for bread-making purposes...does this mean that they will be adding it to the flour that we also buy to make our home made bread??
-
Correct Katherine! ???
-
Then Ceejay that means that we can't avoid it whether we like it or not!! Now that bit I don't like!! >:( >:( >:(
-
that means that we can't avoid it whether we like it or not!
And that is the bit that annoys me. I would prefer the choice.
-
Can you buy spelt flour suitable for breadmaking?? That may be a way to avoid it?
:)
-
Yep spelt and I will be more I guess. Still haven't found a recipe that I would use for everyday bread though. Will have to experiment more.
-
yes mine aren't terribly keen on just spelt either :-\
-
From the figure I understand the folic acid in bread will potentially prevent about 3 babies a year from spina bifida and 20 million Australians will have to eat it.
but mothers are told to take folic acid supplements, shouldn't this be their responsibility??
yet again we do stupid things to our health without thinking...
-
Then Ceejay that means that we can't avoid it whether we like it or not!! Now that bit I don't like!! >:( >:( >:(
Got to love the democracy of choice huh? ???
Organic bread flour is available but it's more than twice the cost of conventional here.... :o
-
is there a web link or anything where we have the ability to voice our concerns and protest? Otherwise I might have to resort to letter writing
-
Kathryn, I've done just that resorted to snail mail. DD works in a government hospital and they have just been told that after the 3% cut backs they've made they now have to make another 10% now and 10% in the new year. Their hospital alone has to lose about 90 staff. They've all been offered redundancy!!!!!!! I pity the poor health system here, it's really going down the gurgler. The message is don't get ill in WA. I'm sure this will affect front line treatment. 23% cuts in 6 -7 months.
Sorry folks will get off my soap box now.
I agree about the folate. The prostate cancer figures alone are very scary.
-
It won't be in organic flour.
Phew - bulk organic bread flour that is my big splurge once a month. Very expensive, but still a lot cheaper than store bought organic bread.
-
SORRY SUNDARI
i tried to quote your post and accidentally posted my own post in yours and deleted yours :(
really shouldn't be posting under the influence (am on heavy duty painkillers while i wait for root canal work next week)
so sorry :(
-
This was one of the reasons I am starting to make my own bread. But if my bakers flour has it added, then I'm only part way there. So I have to buy organic bakers flour? Is that right?
Apparently this has been trialled in other countries (I can't remember which), and the rates of spina bifida etc increased because the pregnant mothers stopped taking the supplements. So it had the opposite effect!
-
Karen you poor lady, root canal work now. Good luck. I'll send healing wishes over. :-*
-
the rates of spina bifida etc increased because the pregnant mothers stopped taking the supplements. So it had the opposite effect!
Yes well that doesn't surprise me cause people will think they don't need the supplements and will rely on bread. At some point I'll find out how much is added and work it out roughly per slice.
Interestingly I posted this on another forum I belong to and the majority are in favour!
-
yeah cookie, from what i'm reading though it's likely the ongoing sinus issues and the tooth issues are connected so hopefully all will be fixed shortly! then what will i blame for my vagueness? lol
-
Oh Karen I really feel for you (literally) :-*
Gee Cookie I can't believe that about the hospitals OMG and if the Govt has it's way be the look of things they are going to be making more people sick while they THINK they are trying to help ??? ??? ???
I was sitting on the fence for a bit with this one and undecided about it, have now changed my mind
-
Can I make my own baker's flour using TMX? Where would I start? I know it can "mill" but what should I mill?
-
Hi Everyone,
A friend sent me her opinion about the mandatory fortification and it's quoted below. This is just in case anyone wanted some more info.
Cheers
K3
"Thanks to Food Standards Australia & New Zealand - from 16 September, all (non-organic) breads & flours sold in Australia must be fortified with folic acid. Why? - to reduce the apparently increasing incidence of neural tubes defects e.g. spina bifida. Folic acid is only effective in preventing NTD when taken 1 month before conception & during the first three months of pregnancy - at the time most women find out they are pregnant (6 weeks), taking a supplement has little to no effect. This is why the government has decided on a mass medication approach. Folic acid supplementation does not prevent all cases of NTD. Synthetic folic acid is not equal, equivalent to or better than folate (aka vit B9) from food.
Negative effects of folic acid include double risk of prostate cancer, increased risk of bowel cancer, increased risk of neuroblastoma (a very nasty cancer in young children)
FSANZ have, in their wisdom, chosen to ignore this and their website states "Based on the best scientific evidence, there is no apparent risk to public health and safety from the estimated increase in folic acid intakes due to mandatory fortification". I beg to differ. There is so much information available. Please just google (use google scholar if you want scientific articles) folic acid with the following terms: mandatory fortification in bread/flour, neural tube defects, prostate cancer, bowel cancer, neuroblastoma, NORVIT trial, folate. Even Wikipedia has an informative & balanced article on folic acid."
-
I am almost too scared to do the googling on those topics Karen >:(
-
Thanks for that link Karen3. Like Kathryn, I'm a bit scared to have a look but the mere mention of neuroblastoma sends shivers up my spine.
When I get a few spare minutes later in the week, I'll have a hunt around and make some phone calls. I think that a way around this is to use bread improver but it's not always easy to buy. Some brands of plain flour will also have a higher gluten content and so be OK for bread making. From reading around it may be a longer rise is needed using lower gluten flours.
I need to also clarify that it's only bakers flour that will have it added, that is what Food Standards states but I need to find that out for myself. That then leaves plain, organic and non-wheat as options.
-
That's just EVIL!!! >:( I have just gone to all the trouble of getting our local little shop to source a 10kg bag of bread flour for me!!!!
-
Nay-nay - you might be OK. It only became mandatory today, so you might have got a bag that is non-fortified.
-
It won't be in organic flour.
Phew - bulk organic bread flour that is my big splurge once a month. Very expensive, but still a lot cheaper than store bought organic bread.
Chelsea, where do you buy this from? Does anyone know where you can get it online in bulk (5-10kg's)? I've had a quick google search and mostly only came up with 1kg bags. Would appreciate any help. Thanks
-
I know it only BECAME mandatory today but....we have been buying Mountain Bread online for ages in bulk (as we go through so much of it and I haven't had the time to put thought into making it :-[ :-[ - too easy to avoid when it has no nasties in it lol) I ordered our last lot about 6 weeks ago and just noticed on the label today (on the last packet :-))) that it has the folate listed in with the flour
If I knew it would last well enough I would go and buy my supplier out of 10kg bags tomorrow!!
-
Wow :o those cancer links are pretty scary!
-
Good news! I have been using Laucke flours so emailed them on Friday and have had a response which included the following:
In Summary:
We do not currently add Folic Acid to our bread flours.
We do NOT intend to conform to the mandated requirement to fortify flour for bread making with Folic Acid.
We have advised the appropriate Ministers that we will not conform and have given them the reasons why we have decided to take this stance. We hope that they will understand, accede to our request and re-examine how their well intentioned desire to reduce neural tube defects may be better achieved, and choose to support Voluntary Fortification of individual foods. If they do not, unfortunately we will have to approach the media and hope that enough political pressure is applies to as to make all politicians take notice – though we hope it will not come to that.
Hopefully there are many other millers who take this stance!
-
Thank you so much for posting this. :)
-
THANK YOU Barb :-* :-* - Now I will change my brand purely in support of this company that is willing to make a stand and so I also get my choice ;)
-
Today I bought whole grain from my local health shop. They sell it in a variety of sizes, up to 5kg. So my plan is to mill my own flour using TMX and add some gluten flour to make my own baker's flour.
-
good on you Laucke!
-
Today I bought whole grain from my local health shop. They sell it in a variety of sizes, up to 5kg. So my plan is to mill my own flour using TMX and add some gluten flour to make my own baker's flour.
Let us know how you go Cathy. A couple of us have tried milling our own flour for breadmaking down here in Tassie with the TMX, but it has been very heavy and coarse. I can use about 30% of milled grain in bread without it becoming too dense. A friend (who is disappointed in her TMX milling results) is buying a grain mill so it will be interesting to compare.
P.S - Don't forget to soak or sprout your whole grains or milled flour. :)
-
This letter was released on Aug 28th to Laucke's customers. :)
http://www.madge.org.au/Docs/Mandatory-Folic-Acid-Fortification.pdf (http://www.madge.org.au/Docs/Mandatory-Folic-Acid-Fortification.pdf)
-
Thanks for that Ceejay! What a strong stance they are taking. I support them. It reminds me of the book "In Defence of Food" by Michael Pollan - he details a few scenarios where the government has taken a stance, however it turns out to be detrimental to our health like Margarine. I sincerely hope that everyone involved in this MFF can be a big enough person to put a halt on the standard and investigate completely.
-
Is there anyway of letting Laucke's know that we support them??
-
I guess just email them.... reception at lauke dot come dot au
-
Thanks so much for that info. I think I can get Laucke at Woolies in bulk. If not, i'll be hunting them down! YAY for them
-
Thanks for doing this research & posting it..............
I have always managed to get 5kg bags of Lauke Wallaby flour at larger Coles but also managed to buy a 25kg bag at a place in Dandenong.
-
If anyone is in Shepparton the SPC/Ardmona Factory Outlet sell the 10kg bags as well - plus heaps of their packet mixes at discount.
-
I was devastated to find this morning as I opened a new bag of Lauke Bakers flour that it now has stamped on it: FOLIC ACID ADDED!!! >:( :'( I wonder if their organic flours have it??? They would be more expensive no doubt! All this after getting my local fruit shop to get it in for me. :-\
-
I had an email a while back from Laucke to say that they had been forced to comply.
My bag of Laucke orgainc flour contains thiamine but not folic acid. I'm fairly sure organic is exempt but will need to check when I buy my next one.
-
I buy mostly Kialla (http://www.kiallafoods.com.au/Default.aspx)organic flours / grains which have no additives. Their local (for me) and seem to be well priced. A 5kg bag of organic plain flour is about $3 more than Wallaby's from Coles (from memory).
-
I buy the Kialla by the 20kg bag from my local health food store... the last one cost me around $40 from memory.. so it wasn't that bad I figured. I prefer organic though.
What a bummer for Laucke though. :(
-
Thanks guys - I just looked up Kialla and have sent it to my Local fruit shop - hopefully they can get it in. :)
-
Thanks guys - I just looked up Kialla and have sent it to my Local fruit shop - hopefully they can get it in. :)
You should be able to get it direct too Nay-Nay. Or next time you're in Toowoomba, it's at most of the Health Food stores.
-
The fruit shop I go to in Mt Barker charges $19.95 for 10kg Laucke bags regardless of type - plain, Wallaby or organic - but you have to keep your eye out for the organic.
-
Gosh that is good. I pay $30 for 10kg organic Laucke bread flour.
-
Yep - Organic is fine as they legally can't add synthetic folate to it. This is the letter I received from Lauke today it's long but a detailed response. ;)
Thanks
Renee
Dear Renee,
RE: Mandatory Folate Fortification
Thank you for your enquiry. We seek to make a wide range of bread mixes
that are distinct from all others on the market, with special attention
to health, flavour, nutrition and quality.
Laucke actively avoids the inclusion of unnecessary additives.
In accordance with a Food Standards Australia New Zealand (FSANZ)
proposal, it has been Legislated that all wheat flour intended to be
used for making bread be supplemented by Millers with Folic Acid by 13th
September 2009. This requirement applies to both wheaten bread flour
used for commercial bread manufacture and for Retail (Home bake) use.
This is a Legislated mandatory requirement.
While Folate is one of the B Group vitamins, and natural Folate is
present in many foods and it is regarded as an essential vitamin, the
Australian Government has decided to Mandate the "fortification" of all
conventional flours destined for bread making purposes with a synthetic
version of Folate, being Folic Acid. The legislation requires that Folic
Acid be added at the rate of between 2 and 3 mg per kilogram of wheat
flour intended for making bread. Wheat flour not used for bread making
and Organic flour is excluded from this requirement. Non-wheat flours
(such as Rye, Buckwheat, etc) are also excluded from this requirement.
However, since Folic Acid must be added to all "wheat flour for making
bread", and "bread" is defined as "the product made by baking a
yeast-leavened dough", and since Millers cannot predict what foods a
cook or baker may produce from their flour, Folic Acid must be added by
Millers to all flours that may be used for yeast raised products.
Therefore it is inevitable that Folic Acid will be included in most
conventional baked products except some biscuits.
Here is a link to the Standard that we must adhere to:
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/_srcfiles/Standard_2_1_1_Cereals_v112.pd
f
While 1A in the Standard suggests that such products will not contain
folic acid, the reality is that MOST baked products (not necessarily
just bread) will contain folic acid. This is because
* millers must supply MFF flour if they believe that it will be
used in a yeast-leavened dough
* most bakers use just one flour to create many products
* there is a "ripple down" effect, such as where bread crumbs are
made from Bread
Folic Acid is difficult to add to flour in the prescribed amounts, and
is not the natural form of Folate as found in food, and more risky
because of that. It is the Government's intention that the entire
population of Australia will be forced to consume Folic Acid, so as to
ensure an increase in the folic acid intake of all woman around time of
conception, hoping that the examples of neural tube defects are reduced
by perhaps 10 to 30 per year.
What are the downside risks?
While there are known health benefits associated with additional
consumption of Folate, researchers are now finding an increasing number
of adverse outcomes being associated with Folic Acid consumption.
Children between 2 and 4 years, the elderly, those with cancer and the
precursors of cancer, persons taking medication for neurological
problems, and the offspring of women over-supplemented with Folic Acid
all face an increased degree of risk of adverse outcomes. Thus a
significant percentage of the Australian population of about 22 million
people will face the risk of adverse health outcomes.
We are not reassured by authorities who suggest that such risks are
minimal or non-existent.
Consumers will find it difficult to avoid consuming supplemental Folic
Acid.
One would have to conclude, in light of the latest knowledge about the
downsides of Folic Acid fortification, that the risks outweigh the
benefits.
Australia has already successfully increased folic acid consumption.
Many specific foods and supplements are available and advertised as
containing added folic acid, with these foods and supplements being
targeted at those who are expected to directly benefit.
The previous benefits of this targeted Voluntary system are likely to be
lost with Mandatory fortification. Women currently taking Folate
supplements will probably cease taking their supplements because they
are aware of mandatory fortification, and for the same reason current
Voluntarily fortified Foods will be less sought and most likely no
longer produced by manufacturers.
It is likely that expectant mothers who need the extra folate will end
up getting less folate than they were before, and so the number of
Neural Tube Defects could actually increase, while at the same time the
entire Australian population will be at risk of adverse effects.
In the USA, Mandatory Folic Acid Fortification has existed for more than
10 years. We can learn something from that. Recently there has been
calls to increase the fortification rate, because the targeted
population groups have actually demonstrated a decline in folic acid
levels. This supports the proposition that Mandatory Fortification is
less effective than Voluntary.
Unfortunately, while there has been monitoring of the benefits of folic
acid, there has been no consideration of or monitoring of any adverse
effects. Thus there is no statistical evidence of adverse health
effects.
Mandatory fortification was initiated as a trans-Tasman Food requirement
(ie. FSANZ - to apply to Australia and New Zealand equally). In early
August 2009, New Zealand reversed that decision and will now NOT require
mandatory fortification with folic acid. 87% of New Zealander
population do not want folic acid in their food. Ireland have abandoned
proposed Mandatory Fortification to Voluntary Fortification due to
health risks and uncertainty. The United Kingdom is also reassessing
their intention to mandate folic acid fortification. However, the
Australian Government appears comfortable with what is currently
legislated, and will remain comfortable until consumer pressure changes
their perspective.
Laucke believe that:
* Voluntary consumption of Folic Acid should very much be
supported and encouraged for the targeted small group of women who will
benefit from Folic Acid consumption, with a focus on the education of
that group regarding the benefits of Folate and Folic Acid.
* MFF must be proven safe according to due process, or
discontinued.
* The Food Industry (incl Bakers) and Consumers be encouraged to
seek more information, take ownership and become involved in MFF issues
to put pressure on the Government for a Review, otherwise it is
inevitable that MFF will be here to stay.
Laucke both disagreed and outright refused to implement 'The Standard'
for Mandatory Fortification of Folic Acid (MFF) for reasons of consumer
safety, duty and risk management. We have now been given no other choice
but to comply with the law, and ensure that all applicable Laucke
products be fortified on or before 1st February, 2010. Packs containing
Folic Acid will be labelled as part of the ingredients listing or have
"Ingredient added: Folic Acid" printed on the pack.
This decision was made after much deliberation and effort towards
convincing the members of the Ministerial Council for Food Regulation
that MFF should be postponed and The Standard for MFF reviewed, but to
no avail.
We have sent circulars to bakers and many key players on the Food
Industry.
You may view pertinent information at
http://www.ausfoodnews.com.au/2009/12/14/leading-flour-miller-expresses-
concerns-over-mandatory-fortification.html
or
we are able to make the following Appendices available to you should
you be interested in further information:
Appendix A: "Folate vs Folic Acid" - The difference between Folate and
Folic Acid.
Appendix B: "Australian Representations of Safety".
Appendix C: "Extracts from research papers regarding the metabolism of
Folic Acid by humans".
Appendix D: "Folic Acid consumption and Mandatory Fortification and the
risk of adverse health effects". - List of Contacts and Publication
links.
As you can see, our hands are somewhat tied regarding supply of products
free from Folic Acid. However, we do have a duty to protect the
Australian community.
* We already produce Organic Flours but they are not readily
available nation-wide, nor in convenient pack sizes for home bakers. We
are feverishly seeking to introduce new Retail certified organic flours
and bread mixes to supermarkets.
* We are working assiduously in the background, building an
irrefutable science-based case against Mandatory fortification of food
with folic acid, and seeking to have Bakers understand why we are so
worried, and to then have the Bakers as a group make representations to
the Australian Government - much as in New Zealand.
In Summary:
* Laucke actively oppose MFF.
* Laucke have had choice but to comply with the law, and ensure
that all applicable Laucke products be fortified with Folic Acid on or
before 1st February, 2010. Packs will be labelled.
* Laucke encourage the Food Industry and Consumers to become
actively involved to ensure a Review of MFF takes place.
* Laucke are working on making Folic Acid free products more
readily available.
I hope this information is of interest to you, and suggest that you
should take whatever action you feel appropriate regarding any concerns
that you may have.
Should you wish to voice your concerns, the following information should
be of assistance (they introduced Mandatory Folate Fortification and are
the only ones who can remove it).
Australia and New Zealand Food Regulation Ministerial Council
http://www.foodstandards.gov.au/aboutfsanz/theministerialcounci1551.cfm
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/foodsecret
ariat-anz.htm
Composition
Membership of the Ministerial Council comprises Health Ministers from
most Australian States and Territories, the Australian Government, and
New Zealand as well as other Ministers from related portfolios (Primary
Industries, Consumer Affairs etc) where these have been nominated by
their jurisdictions. All jurisdictions, except New Zealand, have
nominated a Lead Minister for voting purposes. New Zealand has nominated
their Minister for Food Safety as Lead Minister for voting purposes.
Members
http://www.health.gov.au/internet/main/publishing.nsf/Content/foodsecret
ariat-members.htm
Apologies for the lengthy response, but I hope this helps clarify the
situation.
Best Regards,
Alexandra
-
What an excellent response Nay! I really like it when companies take their customers enquires seriously. Fantastic. :)
-
Wow that is a pretty comprehensive response
-
Three cheers for Lauke!!
I missed this thread the first time around, thanks for bringing it back up again.