Forum Thermomix
Questions Doubts and Requests => Questions? Technical Issues? The Survival Guide => Topic started by: Chelsea (Thermie Groupie) on July 29, 2009, 05:48:40 am
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Hi All,
I am wanting to buy some rapadura sugar online to try in my baking. I noticed that several websites use the names rapadura, muscovado and sucanat sugar interchangably and am getting confused. I then noticed that Billingtons sell light and dark muscovado sugar and am even more confused. I seem to remember the Billingtons is very strong and wondered if it would be suitable for general baking anyway. Can anyone shed any light on the subject?
Chelsea :)
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I am not sure - Dani at The Kitchen Playground (http://www.thekitchenplayground.com/) may be able to help you. A table link from her site:
http://www.seleneriverpress.com/journal/articles.php?issue=2&volume=2&cid=101 (http://www.seleneriverpress.com/journal/articles.php?issue=2&volume=2&cid=101)
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I am not sure - Dani at The Kitchen Playground (http://www.thekitchenplayground.com/) may be able to help you. A table link from her site:
http://www.seleneriverpress.com/journal/articles.php?issue=2&volume=2&cid=101 (http://www.seleneriverpress.com/journal/articles.php?issue=2&volume=2&cid=101)
That makes me feel better. If Thermomixer doesn't know then I am definitely justified in feeling puzzled!!!
Chelsea ;D
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Hi Chelsea -
Rapadura is evaporated cane juice - it's also known as Sucanat. It is just the juice extracted from the cane, which has then been evaporated, not boiled, so it is not 'crystalised' - it is a grainy texture, and can be ground in the TMX to a fine powder to help it dissolve better. (But it won't dissolve as well as refined sugars.)
Muscavado and Turbinado and Demarara and 'organic raw sugar' are all refined, though not as much as white sugar. They are the product of heating the cane juice until crystals form, then spinning it in a centrifuge so the crystals are separated from the syrupy juice, but still having some juice coating them (which is molasses, and still contains lots of goodness). So 'raw' sugar is not really raw, as it has been cooked, and a lot of the minerals and vitamins are gone. Still, it's better than refined sugar.
Rapadura is the best sugar to use, as it is not heated, so it is still a whole food, and has retained its' vitamins and minerals and the natural balance of sucrose, glucose, and fructose. It also contains components essential for its' digestion and is metabolized more slowly than white sugar, so will not affect your blood sugar levels very much at all. Crystallised sugars will raise blood sugar levels, and the more refined the sugar, the more it affects blood sugar.
This is what they do to refined sugar...the raw sugar is centrifuged again, then the crystals are dissolved, boiled, and crystallized again into white sugar. All other sugars--confectioner's (also called powdered), castor, superfine, etc--are all refined sugar of different sizes. Granulated refined sugars are pure sucrose and contain no nutrients beyond calories. They are a "pure" industrial product.
Brown sugar is just white sugar mixed with molasses.
Some sugar is sold as 'organic' raw sugar, and people think this means it's unrefined - all it really means is that it's grown with organic agricultural methods, then refined as usual... the juice (molasses) has been removed, and there's not really any goodness in it.
Hope this is helpful! For more info on natural sweetners, see www.sweetsavvy.com. Debra has lots of great recipes on her site. I also use natural sweeteners - www.quirkycooking.blogspot.com.
Jo
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Thank you so much Jo!!!! You have got me all organised. I just need to source some rapadura sugar now. My local organic distributor could only get me a bulk lot (very bulk - 1.2 tonne). I didn't even ask how much it would cost!!!
Chelsea :)
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Thanks Jo - great work :-* :-*
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WOW Thanks Jo, you are a natural teacher - practice from home-schooling the kids I guess, now I really understand the sugar process and have decided to change all my sugar to rapadura after reading your post. Thought I was doing really well with the organic raw sugar. Have now decided that if I am going to the effort, I may as well make the effort worth while. ;D Thanks again
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WOW Thanks Jo, you are a natural teacher - practice from home-schooling the kids I guess, now I really understand the sugar process and have decided to change all my sugar to rapadura after reading your post. Thought I was doing really well with the organic raw sugar. Have now decided that if I am going to the effort, I may as well make the effort worth while. ;D Thanks again
I hope you have better luck than I do Kathryn at finding it locally. So far my best option is Kombu Online (10kg rapadura sugar for about $100 including freight). I'm starting to wish I lived in a bigger centre - a one stop organic shop would be heavenly about now!!!
Chelsea :)
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Hmm I am just south of Perth so hopefully I will have better luck than you have had Chelsea...Considering the amount that we go through with all the baking etc I don't want to be buying it in a lot of little packets :-))
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WOW Thanks Jo, you are a natural teacher - practice from home-schooling the kids I guess, now I really understand the sugar process and have decided to change all my sugar to rapadura after reading your post. Thought I was doing really well with the organic raw sugar. Have now decided that if I am going to the effort, I may as well make the effort worth while. ;D Thanks again
I hope you have better luck than I do Kathryn at finding it locally. So far my best option is Kombu Online (10kg rapadura sugar for about $100 including freight). I'm starting to wish I lived in a bigger centre - a one stop organic shop would be heavenly about now!!!
Chelsea :)
Thanks! I guess I'm used to researching things. I buy my Rapadura in 12.5kg bags from Demeter Farm Mill (through a bulk co-op) - I pay about $73 for that, incl. freight. If you want to contact them, the email address is info@demeterfarmmill.com.au. They are in NSW. (We live in NQ, so that's a long way for freight - apparantly they'll do freight free to Brisbane if you have over $1000 order, and probably to other places too - so get some friends together and start a co-op!) Kombu Online is a good place if you want small orders. More expensive of course. We can also get it from our local health food shop - they buy it bulk from Demeter and repack it into kilo bags for about $9/kg. If you have a health food shop locally, try and get them interested in getting it in!
Jo :)
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how far do you think you can go with reducing sugar in cakes etc before it affects the end product in terms of texture?
i go through a lot of sugar baking and i'd love to reduce the total sugar intake for us all, but i do want to keep baking.
oh and is rapadura high in salicylates?
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how far do you think you can go with reducing sugar in cakes etc before it affects the end product in terms of texture?
i go through a lot of sugar baking and i'd love to reduce the total sugar intake for us all, but i do want to keep baking.
oh and is rapadura high in salicylates?
I never use more than 100g of Rapadura in a cake - if the recipe calls for more, I add a pinch of stevia powder, or some honey, or some crushed dates... depending on type of cake. And sometimes I cut it down to 50g with a pinch of stevia. I just taste the batter and see if it's sweet enough, and add more stevia/honey if needed. It doesn't usually affect the texture, although brownies work better with their full quota of Rapadura, unfortunately. But there are recipes out there for naturally sweetened brownies - using apple sauce, dates, etc.
With biscuits (cookies) I find a mixture of Rapadura and rice malt syrup works well if you want 'crunchy', or Rapadura and honey if you want 'soft and chewy'.
By the way, to substitute honey for sugar, just halve the amount used (eg. 50g honey = 100g sugar) and lower the temp you cook at by about 25%.
That's how I lower the sugar intake, and save money too. (I buy it all bulk, except the stevia, which though expensive does last for ages because you use hardly any.)
I'm not sure about the salicylate content in Rapadura - I'll have to look into it.
Jo. :)
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oh brilliant, thanks jo!!! i do have stevia drops but because there's so many different forms of stevia it's hard to know how much to use lol
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oh brilliant, thanks jo!!! i do have stevia drops but because there's so many different forms of stevia it's hard to know how much to use lol
I usually use just about a quarter of a tsp of the powder, or a few drops of the liquid, for maybe 50g - but that's not exact... I just check the sweetness and add more if needed. :)
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Talking of sugar... Has anyone tried replacing sugar in baking with Xylosweet? I saw a recipe using it on Amazon.com:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html?docId=1000386281
Apparently, it's a healthier alternative to normal sugar.
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I use XyloSweet which is a brand of xylitol. It occurs naturally i raspberries and other fruits. In the US it is used in toothpaste because it has a natural antibacterial effect and prevents tooth decay. It is made from corn cobs and from birch trees. I have read that birch is better but I don't remember where or why ( I'm getting old and the heat here is accelerating the process ) You substitute it measure for measure for sugar but I have always assumed it was volume because that is how recipes are done in the US. Xylitol is also used as a nasal rinse for sinus symptoms. I don't use regular flours so I don't know if you have to add anything else to baked goods. I have used it with coconut flour to make carrot cake and it was fine. I also use a mix of sweeteners Erythritol, stevia, splenda. I use a liquid splenda so it does not have the fillers in it that the powdered has. But it is in no way a natural product. 24 drops equals 1 cup of sugar.
I also use Erythritol it is made by fermenting and crystallizing sugarcane juice. It is a naturally occurring sugar in fruits and in our bodies and in fermented foods like soy sauce ( i think in small quantities ) Zero is a brand made from organic sugar cane. Erythritol is also suppose to be more tooth friendly and reduce plaque.
When I want a brown sugar flavor I add 1 Tablespoon /cup of sugar equivalent) of black strap molasses. Black strap molasses is where most of the vitamins & minerals end up after processing sugar.
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Thanks Gayle for the detailed answer :). I'm going to give it a go when I get back from holiday.
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I've updated my info on Rapadura on my blog for anyone who's interested... there are a couple of suppliers links too.
http://quirkycooking.blogspot.com/2009/07/rapadura-sucanat-muscavado-turbinado.html
:)
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Hi Jo,
do you use the green or white stevia powder? I like the idea to combine it with rapadura.
As I know, Sucanat and Rapadura is not the same evaporated cane juice. Here (http://stanford.wellsphere.com/healthy-eating-article/sucanat-and-rapadura-updated-7-29-09/763926) is a good info.
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Thanks for the links Jo!
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Well, I've updated my blog about Rapadura AGAIN - seems to be a bit of confusion about Sucanat, Jaggery and Panela - apparently they're not the same as Rapadura, as they've been heated! Here's the updated link: http://quirkycooking.blogspot.com/2009/07/rapadura-sucanat-muscavado-turbinado.html :)
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Thanks for that Jo. I've been buying my rapadura from a mainland (Aus) co-op but with postage it still works out at about $100 for 10kg. It is very hard to get reasonable postage across the Bass Strait. A local health food store has Panela for $9.50kg and I was tempted to buy it after my rapadura runs out, but I won't now. The shop-assistant assured me Panela was another name for rapadura so I will have to correct her next time I visit. Thanks again Jo!
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It's all very confusing - some people use the words 'Rapadura' and 'Panela' and 'Jaggery' interchangeably, and some say they're different! Panela is dehydrated sugar cane juice, and is heaps better than refined sugars, but they do heat it in the dehydration process. But some people say Rapadura is heated in the dehydration process too, and some say it's not... I've sent an email to Daabon Organics to ask about it - they import the Rapadura from Columbia to Australia and most other countries.
Wikipedia says about Panela, "The sugarcane plant is processed in a large press, to obtain the juice, which is cooked at very high temperatures. The panela can be manufactured in disc-shaped pieces or in cubic pieces of cake form and is usually gold or brown in color. Besides Sugar, panela also contains large amounts of proteins, calcium, iron and ascorbic acid." (See also http://mandulpanela.com/english).
I guess if you can't get Rapadura, Panela is still better than sugar, as it has heaps of vitamins and minerals left in it. Just make sure it's organic, as the traditional methods I think leave chemical residues.
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Hmm I am just south of Perth so hopefully I will have better luck than you have had Chelsea
I usually find Rapadura in my local Good Life Health store http://www.goodlifehealth.com.au/, they almost always have it. Its Lotus Organic Foods brand and $6.95 for 375g (so not exactly cheap).
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Here's some info about the difference between Rapadura and Sucanat from Rapunzel, who import it from South America - they ARE different, but I'm still not sure if Rapadura is heated at all in the dehydration process...
"What's the difference between Rapadura and Sucanat?
The way it is processed! Although very similar in appearance and taste, Rapadura is made by just evaporating the water from the organic sugar cane juice. Sucanat is manufactured in a way that the sugar stream and the molasses stream is separated from each other and then carefully re-blended to reach a consistent product. The taste and appearance of Rapunzel's Rapadura on the other hand can vary according to sugar cane variety, soil type and weather. But it is a whole product in its true sense."
http://www.rapunzel.com/products/faq/q_a.html
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Here's some more info about Muscavado too, that I didn't know:
"Muscovado sugar (a.k.a. Barbados sugar), from Britain, is [darker than Turbinado and Demarara] and is made by allowing the sugar crystals to dry under low heat, sometimes in the sun. (Muscovado doesn’t get spun in a centrifuge.) This leaves more plant material in the sugar, resulting in a very strong molasses taste and a sticky consistency. The flavor is overpowering for use in coffee but is sometimes called for in gingersnap recipes."
Sounds like it's not too bad as sugars go (but it is crystallised, so they must use more heat than when making Rapadura).
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No wonder I got confused with all of them :D. When I researched the vitamin and mineral content of the different "sugars", rapadura was very good. Coconut palm sugar was also quite good but as it is too expensive to buy here in Tassie (or over the net) I didn't look into the process used to extract (or manufacture??) it.
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Jaggery is the name given to either palm sugar or cane sugar that's dehyrdrated (high heat - 200 degrees C) and formed into cakes, so I'd still rather Rapadura. From what the lady from Daabon organics told me, the Rapadura is dehydrated at a lower heat than any others, and never separated from the molasses, which is why it's not a consistent colour/texture - depends on the batch. After all my research, I still think it's the best!!
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Thanks so much for all your research - you'll be giving Cyndi O a run for her money! ;)
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Ha ha! Actually, I never thought to look on her site for info - must do that!!!
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I recently bought some rapadura from a new organic supplier and it was labelled as both rapadura and panela. After emailing Quirky Jo and discussing it with her we decided to do a bit more research. It appears that all of the rapadura that enters Australia (under a variety brand names and packaging) comes from the same overseas supplier - Daabon. It is neither traditional sundried/evaporated rapadura (which may not even exist anymore) or panela (heated above 200o).
I guess you could call it an "in-between" product as it has been heating in the following way:
First heating 96 deg C
Second heating 98 deg C for 10 minutes
Third heating 123-125 deg C for 30 minutes.
Regardless of what it officially is, we know that it is still a great deal better for us than sugar. :)
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Well that really threw a spanner in the works!!! :o :-))
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Yeah! Apparently the above is considered 'low heats' for processing cane juice - I read somewhere that panela and jaggery are heated at over 200 degrees C, which I know from Daabon that Rapadura isn't... but they also use the name Panela, which is a traditional name...??? All very confusing, but I thought maybe there are different producers that do things slightly differently but use the same traditional names. Anyway, Rapadura's still the best I've found (and I guess Panella too), because it's not crystallised therefore not processed at as high heats as the others.
I think I'll just have to go to South America and check it all out for myself!!! (I wish!) :-))
Anyone on here from South America???
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I wonder if you could ask Cindy O?? :-\
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I think I'll just have to go to South America and check it all out for myself!!! (I wish!) :-))
If you get a study grant i can make myself available as a technical assistant.
Had a dinner by a Sth American chef last night. Could have asked him ! :-)) :-))
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I think I'll just have to go to South America and check it all out for myself!!! (I wish!) :-))
If you get a study grant i can make myself available as a technical assistant.
Had a dinner by a Sth American chef last night. Could have asked him ! :-)) :-))
Hey, good idea T'mixer!!! My dh is getting quite good at Spanish - we could take him along too! :D
Oh well, if you see that chef again, ask him!
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The packet I have has 'Rapdura' as the main name then 'Panela Muscovado' written under it. in the ingredients list it has written 100% evaporated cane sugar - It's all very confusing. :-\ :-)) ??? I have asked Cindy on her FB page and will await her reply. ;) http://www.facebook.com/pages/Changing-Habits/94250273441?v=wall#!
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I did have a look at Cyndi's website but couldn't find hardly any info on it - not sure how much she's researched it.
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This might give her a reason to. ;)
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Just following up on this thread as I'm interested in sugars for our upcoming FAILSAFE diet, and didn't see an answer to the earlier question. It seems anything with Molasses in is not strictly safe. It is listed as moderate in salicylates on this site http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/food-guide (http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/food-guide) so would depend on your Salicylate tolerance.
Russell.
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How about agave nectar/syrup? I use that a bit, and I know it's safe for diabetics too (very low gi).
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How about agave nectar/syrup? I use that a bit, and I know it's safe for diabetics too (very low gi).
Hmm not sure. One post here http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=516 (http://www.salicylatesensitivity.com/forum/comments.php?DiscussionID=516) says it's sometimes diluted with corn syrup. Another says it's OK in small quantities. I'd say not enough research has been done.
I'm sticking to Maple Syrup for my stuff when I can - once again expensive stuff - $40/l , of course. Simple white sugar is FAILSAFE, but being failsafe doesn't mean it's healthy, just that most people won't have any adverse reactions to it
Russell.
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I must admit until recently I haven't used agave syrup for that same reason Russell. From some of the research that I found it seemed that many manufacturers were refining it to the point where it was not much better than corn syrup (and yes corn syrup was also being added). I have found one brand that I am happy with at the moment though - Loving Earth. There is still some refinement going on and an enzyme being added (as fructose doesn't appear in this form naturally), but from what I can gather it isn't to the same level as most brands of maple syrup. Boy I wish my boys liked honey!!! Anyway here is some info from the Bio-Distributors website on agave:
Loving Earth's agave syrup which we supply is grown by the Aztecs in the Ixmiquilpan region of Mexico. Agave is central to their culture and they have been cultivating it for thousands of years. Our certified organic, wild-crafted agave syrup is a delicious, low glycemic index (GI) sweetener that tastes somewhere between honey and maple syrup. The dark, unrefined agave has a rich vanilla-like aroma and deep wild flavour.
The agave nectar is derived from the Wild Maguey (Agave Salminae). The Ixmiquilpan indigenous growers association hand harvest the nectar. One cactus can produce as much as 2 litres of juice a day. Juice is collected twice daily, and one cactus can continue producing juice for up to three months! The juice is concentrated into syrup through vacuum evaporation. This lowers moisture content, preventing fermentation. Low temperature evaporation, no higher than 40 degrees celsius, maintains the agave's nutritive qualities. The juice is then treated with a vegan-friendly enzyme that converts complex carbohydrates into simple sugars. Our agave is a raw product.
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This article http://www.brighthub.com/health/alternative-medicine/articles/43926.aspx (http://www.brighthub.com/health/alternative-medicine/articles/43926.aspx) argues thaat agave nectar can't be produced without being heated to at least 140 to 160 degress Fahrenheit and therefore cannot be classified as a raw food. I also read that enzymes have to be added to it to make it digestible.
I was initially really keen about xylitol - but this is highly processed - definitely not a whole food - and it doesn't seem to work very well in baked goods (at least I haven't succeeded with it yet!) - it's fantastic in icecream and cold things tho'. I'd love to hear what other people think about xylitol.
This whole sweetener issue is such a frustrating minefield of misinformation. I have come to the personal conclusion from the conflicting research I have read so far that that the only really viable solutions appear to be honey (and the less heated the better) and fruit in its natural form (either fresh or dried - preferably fresh) and even these in moderation. I know at least that I don't have a bad reaction to honey and fruit!
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I was initially really keen about xylitol - but this is highly processed - definitely not a whole food - and it doesn't seem to work very well in baked goods (at least I haven't succeeded with it yet!) - it's fantastic in icecream and cold things tho'. I'd love to hear what other people think about xylitol.
I have no opinion on Xylitol, but here's Sue Dengate's opinion
http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsugarfree.htm (http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsugarfree.htm)
Witht all this stuff, I'm sure there is no "perfect" option. We're all individuals and all react differently. So what's perfectly fine for most people, is probably the worst thing in the world for others. I love peanuts. Not everyone can say that.
Russell.
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I have been wondering about xylitol for a while cause I have been buying that chewing gum so no one in the house is getting any of that horrid aspartame but looks like it is in the same list as that! :o :-))
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Re agave nectar/syrup - there are lots of different types... some good, some maybe not so...
Some agave syrups are processed by adding enzymes to the fresh nectar to split the complex natural sugars into simple sugars, (similar to the process by which bees turn nectar into honey). Another way is by hydrolysis, in which water is added. They don't use chemicals to process the nectar, and most are considered 'raw'... 'Raw' agave syrup has not been heated higher than 118o - 120o C, so still contains living enzymes which have not been destroyed, therefore it is considered 'raw' as defined by raw foodists. (Over 130o C completely destroys all the enzymes, which is why some people call Rapadura raw too - it isn't heated that high.) 'Standard' Agave syrup is heated higher. Read the label carefully to see if it's raw.
Light agave syrup is more refined than dark or amber agave syrup - the darker ones still have the natural minerals and flavour - the lighter one is more of a clean 'sugar' taste, the darker is more caramel or maple syrup-ish.
There is a big difference between the natural fructose in agave, and the fructose in corn syrup - high fructose corn syrup causes blood sugar to rise (and affects the liver), but the fructose in agave is slow release and doesn't significantly raise blood sugar levels, so it's usually fine for diabetics. If you buy a good quality agave syrup, you won't need to worry about corn syrup being added, or chemicals, or overprocessing... See the statement by Madhava (http://dld123.com/q&a/index.php?cid=10300) about how they make their syrup. It is only 'refined' in as much as the excess moisture is removed from the juice of the plant at low heats.
When people say agave is like corn syrup because of the fructose in it, they may not realize that agave has no starch, so cannot be processed the same way as corn syrup - it's just not the same thing. "Our agave nectar is certainly and clearly not made the same way as corn syrup. There is no starch in our agave. There are no chemicals, no refinement beyond the evaporation of water. And, there are no GMO's whatsoever. The agave salmiana has never been subject to this and the enzyme is a natural, non GM organic, vegan enzyme. " (Madhava)
I think you've just got to find a good, raw brand (like Loving Earth or Madhava) and only use it in moderation (like all sweeteners!).
[Note: see Sweet Savvy for more ino] (http://www.sweetsavvy.com/sweeteners/summary.php?id=Agave%20Nectar)
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Thanks quirky Jo - another treatise - great work. Your knowledge is wonderful - thanks v much :-* :-*
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Yeah sorry - once you get me started you can't shut me up!! ;D
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Hey - I don't mind - it is great that you can do it - love it. :-* :-* :-*
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We don't want you to ever shut up Jo! ;D
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You guys are too sweet! :-* :-* :-*
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I got a reply from the Changing Habits Face Book page about the sugars - I wonder if you girls that found out your info should contact her as this is all the comment said. ???:-))
"The sugars are made in exactly the same way just in different countries so the name is patented to the country, ie. rapadura is from Brazil, sucanat is America, Muscovado is the UK"
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Yeah, I don't think that's right - I know the sugar and the molasses is separated then recombined in artificial proportions with Sucanat, and everything I've read says that Muscavado is made like that too... and I thought Muscavado was also centrifuged, so it's crystallised, not just dried and seive ground. Hmmm, I might send an email.
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Hi Jo
Thank you so much for all the really useful information you have posted up. I sent a link to your blog post on this subject to the baker I will be doing a gluten free baking course with later this month and she found the information really useful.
I also have another question. You mentioned earlier in this thread about cooking with honey By the way, to substitute honey for sugar, just halve the amount used (eg. 50g honey = 100g sugar) and lower the temp you cook at by about 25%.
Do you need to reduce the liquid in the recipe as well?
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I also have another question. You mentioned earlier in this thread about cooking with honey By the way, to substitute honey for sugar, just halve the amount used (eg. 50g honey = 100g sugar) and lower the temp you cook at by about 25%.
Do you need to reduce the liquid in the recipe as well?
Sorry, I should have said you should also reduce the liquids to about 75% of the original amount. Or for every cup of honey, reduce the liquids by a quarter. I usually just play with it a little til it looks right. :D
Glad you found the blogpost helpful! :)
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Thanks again Quirky Jo - another new Avatar !!!
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Yeah, I think my photos of food look better than photos of me!! :D
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I attended 2 weeks ago a lecture in Toronto with David Wolfe. He was asked about his thoughts on agave:
The Agave Blues (http://www.sacredchocolate.com/agave-blues-david-wolfe)
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Now I'm confused - right at the bottom, rapadura is mentioned as one to avoid. I thought it was supposed to be good.
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Oh, this is all so frustrating, isn't it!! I really think different producers do slightly different processes, and there's no 'one way' of making agave, or evaporated cane sugar, so some ways are better than others. The Madhava agave syrup is considered 'raw' because it's cooked at less than 118o (at least that's what they say), and I know others say that - but then the process described by David Wolfe sounds pretty scary! I've read of 3 different ways agave is processed - the hydrolysis method (where they add water and cook over low heats) is supposed to be the best - but David Wolfe doesn't mention that one.
I don't agree about the Rapadura - I wonder where he gets his info about the processing, and lack of vitamins and minerals??? Especially if he says organic molasses is good, which is more refined than Rapadura, as it's the 'mother juice' that is taken away from sugar when it's being heated and spun - and it's not taken away from Rapadura! And I know a few people who have headaches and candida problems if they eat sugar, but don't get that with Rapadura (which D.W. says you do). Oh well. Guess we'll never know all the answers, and just have to do the best with what info we have.
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I agree Jo. It is so frustrating. Every article that I read seems to suggest something different and with so many "experts" on the internet it is hard to check sources and find out the actual truth.
Based on the information that I have read I have decided to stop ordering and using Agave Syrup. I am not convinced that "raw agave" isn't ok to use, but have decided that I can do without it and that it's safer to give it a miss.
With regard to rapadura, I have decided to continue using it. I know that the rapadura I source isn't made in the traditional sun-dried method and that it is somewhat "refined", but I believe it is my best option at the moment. Rapadura doesn't upset my son's stomach or behaviour, which makes me believe that it is significantly different to the refined sugars that create so many problems for him.
And now what about maple syrup and honey? Anything we should know there??? :D
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And now what about maple syrup and honey? Anything we should know there??? :D
On the FAILSAFE diet, Maple Syrup is allowed, so is Golden Syrup (although I'm not sure why it's OK but brown sugar, due to the molasses isn't). Honey has Salicylates, which are a non-no until you challenge them to see if they affect you.
Russell.
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It is such a minefield out there. I am also frustrated by all the conflicting information. I've concluded that all one can do is experiment and hope for the best and see if one reacts to any given sweetener. Honey and fruit seem to be the safest.
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Yes, I use raw honey a lot, and pure maple syrup a little... I'm decreasing my use of agave because I'm just not sure. (Never used a lot of it anyway, as it's too expensive.) I often grind up dates to substitute for part of the sugar, and use Rapadura for the rest. (And most recipes don't need as much sweetening as they say, I think.)
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Although it's frustrating, at least these differing views are keeping us interested and we're not getting complacent.
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Although it's frustrating, at least these differing views are keeping us interested and we're not getting complacent.
Very true. :)
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You'll be glad to know that Debra Lynn Dadd, of Sweet Savvy, is going to help us out with these questions!!! Answers coming soon...
;D
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Great news Jo. :)
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On ya Jo - have to check her site for some more recipes.
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Hi all
I am trying out some rapadura at the moment. I am a little confused though. If I am using it in baking for sweetness and cooking it at about 180oc will that then destroy the nutrients left in it from being sun dried? As it is a very expensive sweetener should I reserve it for raw recipes? Also what are the ratios in comparison to raw sugar?
Thanks
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With regard to the ratio, you can use rapadura as a direct substitute (eg 100g raw = 100g rapadura). I often use a little less rapadura however because it is more expensive and often recipes are heavily sweetened anyway.
With regard to the nutrients it really comes down to personal choice. A lot of the nutrients in the rapadura are destroyed by high temperature, so raw recipes are certainly a better option nutrionally. For me personally I do use rapadura in my baking, but more as a form of damage control. Baking with rapadura certainly doesn't make your baking "healthy" as humans really aren't designed to eat sweetened baked goods. As we like our cakes and puddings though ;), I use rapadura as it is a far better option than the heavily refined raw sugar.
To cope with the cost of rapadura on one-income, I buy a 5kg sack ($28) every other month and fill up my kitchen container each week from the sack (ration it out). We haven't run out yet and if we come close it is a good indication that we have had too much sweet stuff and need to slow it down anyway. :)
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That rationing idea is a good plan Chelsea! I often cut it down in recipes too - eg. if the recipe says 200g sugar, I might use 100g Rapadura and 50g honey, or even less Rapadura as most recipes are too sweet, as you say! (Did this with the chocolate chip cookie recipe in the 'My Way of Cooking' book, and still WAY too sweet for me!)
I use raw honey and Rapadura in baking, although they're obviously not 'raw' once baked, but at least (as Chelsea said) it's better than the more refined options.
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Thanks for that. Chelsea where to you source your 5kg bags from?
Thanks again
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I buy it from Biodistributors here (http://www.biodistributors.com.au/PriceListFiles/sweeteners.php). I live close to the company though so I only pay a tiny amount of freight (they hand deliver - so cute :D). I was buying it from a mainland company (organic feast??), but the postage was a killer. It really does pay to shop around and hopefully find something local. ;D
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Thanks for that. Chelsea where to you source your 5kg bags from?
Thanks again
Another thought - our local health food shops buy most things in bulk and pack them down into small sizes. Ask them if you can take in your own container and fill it up. That's what I do for rapadura. I get a small discount off the 1kg bag price too.
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It's funny, you know how we were wanting to get Cyndi O'Meara's thoughts on rapadura, and she didn't have much info on her site about it? Well, I went on there this morning and noticed she's got rapadura for sale, and I clicked on it to see what info she had, and she's updated it - from the article I wrote!!! Ha ha! I thought that was funny! :D
Hers: http://www.changinghabits.com.au/_product_107566/Rapadura_Sugar_500g
Mine: http://quirkycooking.blogspot.com/2009/07/rapadura-sucanat-muscavado-turbinado.html
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What a crack-up!!! That is also a big compliment to you Jo! ;D
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;D :D We won't hold our breath waiting then!! So funny! Did you think $22 + postage for 2kg was a reasonable price Jo?? :-\
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I pay $28.90 per 5kg bag of rapadura. I buy online through Biodistributors. I only pay about $6 freight (for my total order) because I live locally, but I think their freight costs are standard/reasonable for elsewhere. :)
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Eeek - $11/kg! I pay about $5/kg including freight, but I buy it straight from Demeter through a co-op with lots of people in it, so we get good prices. The Biodistributors price isn't bad - I'd got with them, Nay Nay!
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Nay-Nay - the Organic Shop in Campbell St Toowoomba full price is about $9/kilo so that's defiitely cheaper than Cyndi.
Will have to check out the freight from Biodistributors. It might be worth us pooling a purchase from them.
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You can get it off here for about $8/kg if you get 12.5kg. It's from Demeter.
https://www.goodfoodwarehouse.com.au/default.aspx
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Yes, Demeter is where I get mine, but through a co-op.
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Yes, Demeter is where I get mine, but through a co-op.
How much do you have to order to get your prices Jo?
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I'm not sure - I know that if the order is over $1000 the freight from NSW to Brisbane is free, then we pay for it to come up on the train from there. We have a lot of people in our co-op, and we order 6 months worth of stuff at a time, so it must be a fair amount! :) I can probably find out for you. You do have to have an ABN no. though to buy directly from them.