Forum Thermomix
Questions Doubts and Requests => Recipe Requests => Topic started by: shkooter on February 18, 2013, 02:49:23 am
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Hi,
I've been trying to make a sourdough starter using wholemeal spelt. It was going great.
This was it on day 2
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/y4edy4u5.jpg)
But since then nothing. I fed it 50grams of flour and 50g yesterday and there were bubbles but no growth.
I took out 150g this morning and added 70g flour and 70g water but still no growth, but there are some bubbles after 5 hours. I had it in the laundry where it is around 28 degrees.
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/a5yhanet.jpg)
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/18/su4udama.jpg)
I'm just not sure what to do?
Thanks in advance
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Hopefully Chookie will be able to help you. She is our resident expert.
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Thanks Cookie :)
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I am no expert. Shkooter. I also have not made starter from Spelt.
However it appears, from the photo, to be alive.
Why did you remove some of the starter?
It should be OK at this temp. But the warmer the conditions, the quicker it will use the energy available in the flour.
I would give it a good feed, say 1/2 cup of both flour and water and give it a good stir every hour or so. I leave a spoon in the jar and just give it a stir as I pass.. It sounds like it is hungry.
Let us know how you go.
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I am no expert. Shkooter. I also have not made starter from Spelt.
However it appears, from the photo, to be alive.
Why did you remove some of the starter?
It should be OK at this temp. But the warmer the conditions, the quicker it will use the energy available in the flour.
I would give it a good feed, say 1/2 cup of both flour and water and give it a good stir every hour or so. I leave a spoon in the jar and just give it a stir as I pass.. It sounds like it is hungry.
Let us know how you go.
Thanks heaps Chookie.
I have been reading a whole lot of (random) stuff on different pages, and one of the things I read was that there might be to much starter to maintain. I didn't dump it - I poured it into another container and popped it in the fridge.
Should it still be growing/doubling? It does seem active, just not doing anything.
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In the fridge, it will hibernate. When you take it out of the fridge, you need to feed it and give it a good stir. And bring it back to room temp.
I am wondering where you live? If it. Is very warm you could have the same problems that Gert had. . Because of the warmth, she had a very hungry starter, but eventually made an excellent loaf.
I would be inclined to mix 400g of starter with 500g flour, 1 teaspoon of each salt and sugar, and water to form a soft dough, knead for 4 mins, tip into a cast iron pot, ( lined ) that you can put a lid on. Let it double. Then bake with lid on for first 30 mins. Then without for 15. I have no idea how long it will take to double as it depends how active the starter is. If it looks like it is late at night, stick it in the fridg, remove in the morning, and continue to let it rise.
Emergency treatment!!!!!! If after 24 hours nothing much has happened, scrape back into TMX and knead in 2 teaspoons of dried yeast that you have mixed with a little warm water.
Sorry to prattle on, but there are many variables and you will have to find what will work for you.
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In the fridge, it will hibernate. When you take it out of the fridge, you need to feed it and give it a good stir. And bring it back to room temp.
I am wondering where you live? If it. Is very warm you could have the same problems that Gert had. . Because of the warmth, she had a very hungry starter, but eventually made an excellent loaf.
I would be inclined to mix 400g of starter with 500g flour, 1 teaspoon of each salt and sugar, and water to form a soft dough, knead for 4 mins, tip into a cast iron pot, ( lined ) that you can put a lid on. Let it double. Then bake with lid on for first 30 mins. Then without for 15. I have no idea how long it will take to double as it depends how active the starter is. If it looks like it is late at night, stick it in the fridg, remove in the morning, and continue to let it rise.
Emergency treatment!!!!!! If after 24 hours nothing much has happened, scrape back into TMX and knead in 2 teaspoons of dried yeast that you have mixed with a little warm water.
Sorry to prattle on, but there are many variables and you will have to find what will work for you.
Thanks again Chookie. My post was a bit confusing now that I re-read it. The main body (so to speak) of the starter is on the bench - the bit that I poured off is in the fridge.
I fed it again yesterday as per your suggestions and there was still no growth, although there were bubbles. I've just fed it again to see whether a 12 hour schedule will work better.
I'll try to make a loaf using your recipe later in the week and I'll report back
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Bubbles are a good sign.
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Katie and I were only discussing this the other night. Neither of our starters double but only grow by the amount of what we feed it with. I've read where people say their starter doubled overnight but ours never has (our dough doubles but not the starter) - it just gets bubbles and I thought that was what was supposed to happen. It can all be very confusing. I agree that bubbles are a good sign Cookie :D
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Katie and I were only discussing this the other night. Neither of our starters double but only grow by the amount of what we feed it with. I've read where people say their starter doubled overnight but ours never has (our dough doubles but not the starter) - it just gets bubbles and I thought that was what was supposed to happen. It can all be very confusing. I agree that bubbles are a good sign Cookie :D
That's good to hear. So does it bake well?
I got some other starter from a friend today and that has doubled since I fed it at lunchtime. Except I ran out of flour and can't make a loaf till tomorrow. D'oh!! That is a white flour starter so that could explain why it I so different to mine
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I have hit and miss efforts with sourdough bread making shkooter - mine is a white flour starter too.
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I use rye flour and the starter doesn't double but gets very foamy and bubbly so it looks like there is more in the jar. It continues to ferment slowly even in the fridge so gives off a large gassy burp when i first open the lid.
I think white flour starters are harder to maintain according to Yoke Mardewi's Sourdough book.
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My sourdough bread is usually lovely. It's funny that Yoke states that Bonsai as I find my white sourdough fairly easy to maintain. With my sourdough baking I seem to use a mixture of Yoke's methods and Chookie's methods and touch wood things go well. I loved Yoke's classes and learned so much from her, but she did scare me about sourdough baking a bit and now Chookie has shown me that there is nothing to be scared about.
Yoke now does thermomix sourdough classes and I think I will attend one of those.
My starter sometimes bubbles up, but then moves down again. Often it is over night and you can see where it has bubbled to. The ideal time to use it would be when it is at its peak, but I'm not getting up in the middle of the night for anything, not even my sourdough starter. 8) 8)
I think a rye starter is easier to handle and less 'fussy' than a white starter.
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A sourdough breadmaking class sounds great. But long. Most of the recipes that I have seen call for proffing over 6 or more hours. That's a class that definitely needs to be accompanied with some wine.
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This lady is amazing. Before you start you taste lots and lots of things. She then chats about various things, methods etc. it is usually about 4 hours and you do one thing that is actually hands on, and a few other things that you 'help' do. She runs most of them in Perth, Western Australia.
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Thanks for all that info, Cookie. I find the white SD starter pretty robust so haven't made a Rye starter.
shkooter, the recipe that I posted from the Revolution book has only one rise and is much quicker. It produces a good loaf.
I also consulted DR. Google about Spelt. The gluten in the Spelt behaves differently, with yeast, to that in wheat flour. You may have to experiment a bit to get a good result.
Yoke's books are great, if you can't make it to her class.
Keep trying.
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A quick update
I had so much white starter this morning I thought I’d start a bit of an experiment and I’ve kept the 100% white (bakers) flour going, as well as my 100% spelt, and I’ve mixed a third starter using 50% spelt and 50% white (bakers) flour.
Here they are at 3pm, after I put them all into new, sterilised jars and fed them at 8:30am
You can see that the 100% white flour starter has doubled, and is actually on its way down now.
The 50% mix has increased by around 25% and the 100% spelt hasn’t only risen a tiny bit, but that's better than nothing.
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Good,we are all learning with you. ;D
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I've found these resources online
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/index.php/sourdough-starters/starter-essentials/32-starter-recipes/38-making-a-sourdough-starter-from-spelt
and
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/index.php/recipes-how-to-make-sourdough-bread/simple-sourdough-recipes/spelt-sourdough-recipe
I'm glad I came across them, as I would not have known that you need to make a fairly dry dough - I would have thought it would be the opposite - I always add a bit more liquid as it seems to absorb more
and this was really interesting too
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/index.php/stories/the-day-the-starter-died
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Great perseverance, well done.
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So after a couple more days I think we are pretty much ready to go. I got 10kg of spelt delivered yesterday (yippee for bulk buying)
This is a little timelapse of my starter after feeding yesterday - this is 10 hours of growth condensed to a 4 second timelapse video
http://youtu.be/YisIWqeJ0Mg
This is the recipe I'm going to follow tomorrow. I won't use the TM till I'm a bit more comfortable with the way the dough feels
http://www.sourdoughbaker.com.au/index.php/recipes-how-to-make-sourdough-bread/simple-sourdough-recipes/68-wholemeal-spelt-sourdough-recipe
fingers crossed
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That video is so clever. I'm sure your bread will turn out. Patience is the thing. Don't be in a rush for it to rise, it can take ages and ages. Mine is reasonably quick at the moment because it is so hot here.
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That video is so clever. I'm sure your bread will turn out. Patience is the thing. Don't be in a rush for it to rise, it can take ages and ages. Mine is reasonably quick at the moment because it is so hot here.
Yes , Cookie is quite right. You can't hurry Sour Dough. I started some sat 8.00 am, it is on its second rise now and it is 2.00 pm. Probably another 2 hours. Have fun.
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This lady is amazing. Before you start you taste lots and lots of things. She then chats about various things, methods etc. it is usually about 4 hours and you do one thing that is actually hands on, and a few other things that you 'help' do. She runs most of them in Perth, Western Australia.
I bought this sourdough book yesterday - coincidence. How do you find out about these classes Cookie? I'd love to go to one.
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(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/27/by2yda4y.jpg)
This one took 8 hours, 2 rises. Cooked in cast iron pot.
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Alexis have a look at www.wildsourdough.com.au
Yoke is great. With Chookie's sourdough starter ( I killed my Yoke one after about 18 months) and thoughts mixed with Yoke's I am getting fairly good at sourdough.
Yoke runs her classes at her house in Ardross. She has a thermomix now too so runs some classes using it. The classes aren't cheap though I wanted to go to a thermomix one but will be in Singapore so I will have to wait. Her website ( above) has all the details on.
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Thanks, Cookie. I'll have a look.
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The classes sound great. I've enquired about the Mar 16 Thermomix class and the Tempeh on on the 9th. Hopefully they won't be too expensive.
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I've booked in for Mar 16 but can't afford both, sadly. I'm looking forward to it. Thanks for letting me know about it.
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That's the one I wanted to go to Alexis, but I have something on that morning. A pity we could have met. I hope you enjoy it.
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It was too cold yesterday for sourdough, so I did it today. I fed my starter this morning, and began making my dough around 2pm. I've just shaped my loaves for their third and final proof for baking in the morning
(http://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/02/27/by2yda4y.jpg)
This one took 8 hours, 2 rises. Cooked in cast iron pot.
This loaf looks great. I hope mine looks even half as good
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Shkooter, I have been making SD for 30 years. it doesn't always look this good. I give my starter tough love. Don't fuss too much.
You will get there. It has turned cold here now so I am looking for warm spots around the house, and know it will take longer. Let us know how you go. have fun.
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I wonder how it went?
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I went to Yoke's class yesterday and found it really useful. Lots of good ideas and it really helps to see exactly what the dough and the starter should look like.
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That is great. Play around with it and adapt it to your life style.
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Thanks, Chookie. That was one thing I learnt, not too try and adapt to the sourdough, it has to be as you say :-))
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I'm glad you enjoyed it. I love her classes and especially her tastings.