Forum Thermomix

Welcoming Center, Management and General Chat => Chit Chat => Topic started by: brazen20au on March 27, 2010, 06:40:44 am

Title: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 27, 2010, 06:40:44 am
Ryan (6) has generally been a pretty good eater, will try any vegie & his fave thing is a salad etc.... but lately he is becoming fussier and fussier and because he hardly eats protein foods he is ALWAYS hungry - so he'll leave the dinner table and ask to make himself a sandwich  :-))

i constantly worry that he must be hungry at school and it must be affecting him (we have been having a LOT of problems with him at school and are investigating possible aspergers / PDD-NOS at the moment).) the other day i was there and he hurriedly ate his lunch right at the end of lunchtime, then less than 1.5 hours later was complaining that he was too hungry to stay and play with friends after school.

anyway, this is what he won't eat - suggestions for snacks and meals or just ways to increase his protein intake very welcome.
he also won't eat anything for lunch at school except a tomato, lettuce and cucumber sandwich, which sounds healthy but he's as skinny as a rake. *sigh*
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Thermomixer on March 27, 2010, 07:10:11 am
Sorry, you know me and kids.  I'll think about it though.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 27, 2010, 08:05:12 am
even just suggestions of high protein things i've overlooked would be great! i'm feeling really stuck
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: cookie1 on March 27, 2010, 08:08:07 am
Poor you and Ryan. It sounds like a very rough time. I know this sounds really dumb but have you done the usual thorough check with a doctor-eyes, ears, anaemia, worms  etc. Occasionally this finds something. It will be hard to get him to change if there is the possibility of Aspergers. I will put my thinking cap on.  :-*

Is there a chance he is being bullied somewhere? Perhaps some child has told him he is fat.  Chin up. :-* :-*
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 27, 2010, 09:06:59 am
he's defintiely had ears, eyes and iron levels (plus other blood tests including for coeliac) done and all clear :) worms we haven't done, he hasn't said anything about being itchy, but will keep it in mind.

yes, he has started being bullied at school - brought on by his own behaviour at school (refusing to participate for whole days on end, spending the time under the desk and often banging for attention etc. being sent to the principal / DP regularly etc etc refusing to speak to or play with any of his friends and classmates :()

he has never been fat, he is just skin and bone LOL (but weight to height ratio is fine as he is quite wiry and muscle weighs more of course)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: cookie1 on March 27, 2010, 09:43:36 am
Karen my heart goes out to you. I will keep the thinking hat on.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Ceejay on March 27, 2010, 10:09:35 am
Food has always been an issue for my eldest (15) since he was 6 or so.  He wasn't diagnosed with Aspergers until he was 13 due to his cancer diagnosis (at almost 7) though.

I see it as his way to *attempt* to control something in his life.  He refuses to take lunches to school and often won't eat breakfast either.... this means he is ravenous by the afternoon and demolishes anything in sight.

My solution was to not make a huge deal of it... take bulk amounts of food to school (which is stored at the SEU) so that he could access it if he really wanted to.  At home, I continue to cook food he can eat and just leave it in the fridge.  He refuses dinner most nights so I've allowed him to cook for himself now.  If he's not feeling that he wants to prepare it, I find he will eat the "leftovers" in the fridge. ;)

He is extremely thin... he currently weighs 40kg from memory, when most boys his age are at least 56kg upwards, but he is healthy enough.

Otherwise, if I wish to introduce new foods, I find it better to allow him to have some input into it.  It's a tough road and they often dig their heels in to begin with but slowly take it in..

I wish you much strength and patience for now... no child will willingly starve himself if there is food available.

Good luck with the assessment, I pray yours is speedy.  :-*
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Chelsea (Thermie Groupie) on March 27, 2010, 10:49:43 am
Gosh that is tricky Karen. I remember going through similar situations with students and families when I was teaching and it was very stressful for them.  I will have a think and go back through my Aspergers notes for you.

Just off the top of my head . . .

Does Ryan's school warm up meals for students? Would he eat a sausage, rissole or meatballs that had been pre-cooked at home and warmed by a staff member?

Will he tolerate soup at the moment? Perhaps he would like to choose a special little thermos to take his soup to school in?

Is he open to a little bribery?  You could use a divided snack container and place assorted items in each section (buttered bread, raw vegie sticks, cheese, dried fruit, crackers, wrapped lunch meat, a chocolate square or small biscuit) and make the rule (with his teachers support) that he has to eat all of the food in one section before he can move on to the next.

Will keep thinking.  Good luck.  :)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: achookwoman on March 27, 2010, 11:47:35 am
Karen, sounds like a social / behavioral problem to me, manifesting itself as an  eating problem.    Does he have a special friend that you could invite home to try and build some peer support at school?
Is there some thing that he enjoys doing that you could concentrate on ?
Could the school give him some special task at lunch time to remove him from the school yard,  and perhaps bulling ?

I feel for both of you,   and there are some good ideas in these posts.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: versaceyoyo on March 27, 2010, 12:09:46 pm
I have no advice Karen, but I feel for you.  I have a 3 yo DD who eats very little but says her favourite food is chuppa chups.  :o

It's very hard as a mother just to 'go with the flow' when you feel your child is actually not eating essential nutrients...I wish I could be more helpful.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: I Love Bimby! on March 27, 2010, 12:34:39 pm
Karen, would that book Deceptively Delicious be of any benefit?
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Russell on March 27, 2010, 09:27:01 pm
Wow, that list he won't it is most of the stuff mine will eat. Try to get a salad into them though, and it's like trying to get a cat to swallow a tablet.

Does he say why he doesn't like those things? Is it the taste? The texture? Some perceived after effect? I know when I was a kid, some foods like beans I think it was, almost made me gag trying to eat them, but I eat them fine now. No idea why though.

My ASD boy likes only very bland foods. He will eat just straight cooked mince, chicken or most other meats, but as soon as you try to add any flavouring, he doesn't like it. ASD kids can be hyper sensitive to stuff like that. However, the foods on your list don't seem particularly flavoursome.

If he will eat sausages, you can hide a multitude of things inside them, and with the Thermomix and being able to make your own, that could be a nice healthy alternative. When we go on the FAILSAFE diet, I think we'll be making out own sausages, sausage rolls, pies etc.

Sorry not much help.

Russell.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: judydawn on March 27, 2010, 11:26:00 pm
Karen, my DH will not eat anything for tea if he has a cooked lunch (which we usually have) or if he has a small lunch only wants a very small tea so I give him Hospital Grade Sustagen when he doesn't want a meal to ensure he is getting the nutrients his body needs.  Whether this is suitable for a 6 year old, in addition to what he does eat,  is something you would have to find out from your doctor or nutritionalist. 
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 28, 2010, 02:04:33 am
thank you all, i am reading and will try to reply in teh next day or two :) some great ideas, thanks :)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Chelsea (Thermie Groupie) on March 28, 2010, 04:34:05 am
When you have a moment Karen (funny I know :-))) you should let us know what Ryan likes to eat at the moment and that may also help us come up with some more helpful ideas.  He may like berry muffins (Quirky Jo's wholegrain spelt blender batter muffins), pancakes (wholegrain brown rice blender batter pancakes) or perhaps milo (Cathy's high protein milo recipe - great in a little flask with milk-cubes to keep it cold).

I hope you have some news soon regarding his diagnosis. Food and eating are often among the first areas affected by social and behavioural disorders so it is good to have him checked out just in case. :)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 28, 2010, 05:01:49 am
he doesn't eat muffins, pancakes or chocolate LOL

ok, what does he eat?
breakfast is weetbix or sandwich with peanut butter, this is fine by me (at least PB is a protein lol)

for his fruit break at school he has strawberries or watermelon, the only fruits he will eat

recess at the moment is crap in packets (oreos, chips etc) because other than a butter cake or chocolate cake (the one chocolate thing he will have) he will not eat anything else i cook  :'(

lunch he will eat a salad sandwich as above - lettuce, cucumber tomato. the only other thing he will eat from the school canteen is nuggets and chips which i only order once a term if he doesn't like what they have for their special lunch. i did remember he will eat leftover sausages or snag s'wiches.

dinner is
rice (absolutely NOT fried rice, but risotto is good) if we have a dish with rice he pretty much leaves the rest and eats the rice
pasta (spag bol and pasta fagiole are good, most others not so)
sausages but NOT meatballs
hamburgers
pumpkin soup (was thinking great idea chelsea, can put some legumes in to add more protein & fibre)
tacos
pizza with garlic, olive oil & parmesan
cauliflower, corn on the cob, peas (sometimes)
nuggets & chips

other things he will eat
baked beans (tinned only, not homemade)
bacon
garlic bread
wholemeal bread, no 'bits' in it
milkshakes or flavoured milk

i must say he WILL try anything we ask him to, even though one mouthful is enough.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 28, 2010, 05:04:25 am
i'm not so much worried about his breakfast or dinner, it's more the school snacks and lunches and how hungry he is by 3pm. his teacher mentioned the other day when i was there while he ate, that he eats double what the other kids eat at lunch time (all my kids have 4 pieces of bread in 2 s'wiches for lunch). yet he's still starving 1.5 hours later
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Russell on March 28, 2010, 05:18:19 am
i'm not so much worried about his breakfast or dinner, it's more the school snacks and lunches and how hungry he is by 3pm. his teacher mentioned the other day when i was there while he ate, that he eats double what the other kids eat at lunch time (all my kids have 4 pieces of bread in 2 s'wiches for lunch). yet he's still starving 1.5 hours later

Hmm that doesn't sound right. If he IS eating and still feeling hungry, I'd be trying another doctor and get some other tests done. We had to go through 5 paediatricians with Timothy before we got one that actually cared what we were telling them and not just brushing it off with some random medication, or telling us we were bad parents.

Russell.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Russell on March 28, 2010, 05:20:12 am
Sorry I just realised that last post may have come out the wrong way. Whether it's your current doctor if you're happy with them, or a new one, I think it's good to rule out possible medical causes before tearing your hair out thinking you are doing something wrong.

Russell.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: brazen20au on March 28, 2010, 06:43:14 am
no, that's ok, i didn't take it the wrong way :)
i don't know how much of a deal to make about it, i'm already feeling like a potentially paranoid mother with all the other stuff going on  ??? 8)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Very Happy Jan on March 28, 2010, 08:00:35 am
Goodness Karen - what a load you are carrying- and most of it worry. We had to dramatically increase my DS protein intake last year to compensate for the heavy sport load & rapid body growth. Although he ate all forms of meat he simply couldn't eat the quantity his body required. The best thing I found to increase the protein intake without actually increasing the food quantity was a protein powder. There a several types available from either health food shop or even herbalife have a good one. I found it easy to mix it in shakes or milo or even just mix in with what we were having for dinner. It had no real flavour so you could use it mixed in with the things he will eat. Good luck  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Ceejay on March 28, 2010, 08:51:16 am
i don't know how much of a deal to make about it, i'm already feeling like a potentially paranoid mother with all the other stuff going on  ??? 8)

From my experience you make as much a deal of it as you think you need to K!  I had to throw one heck of a tantrum to get my son's ASD diagnosis...because of his medical history.

Who cares what the drs, specialists etc think of you... it won't matter once you're out of their sight...  ;)

I've been accused of Munchausen by proxy a few years ago by someone whom I thought was a friend..  :-))  Nice. 

The fact is, my DS1's tumour was missed for quite a while, even though he'd been in and out of the local ER around 25 times.  Go with your instincts.  :)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: I Love Bimby! on March 28, 2010, 11:21:21 am
Karen, my DH will not eat anything for tea if he has a cooked lunch (which we usually have) or if he has a small lunch only wants a very small tea so I give him Hospital Grade Sustagen when he doesn't want a meal to ensure he is getting the nutrients his body needs.  Whether this is suitable for a 6 year old, in addition to what he does eat,  is something you would have to find out from your doctor or nutritionalist. 

This reminded me of a little boy who visited us many years ago with his Father. The boy who was probably 5 at the time would only eat 1/4 of a piece of toast for breakfast, sometimes 1/2 a sausage and refused to eat anything else. He had some sort of formula for every meal. Although.... the would eat lollies  :-))

They stayed a whole weekend and all I saw him eat was in total 1/2 a piece of toast, a couple of bites of sausage, 1/2 packed of marshmallows and the formula. That was it  :o  Both his parents were nurses and said that they just couldn't get him to eat food...
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: Chelsea (Thermie Groupie) on March 28, 2010, 11:54:27 am
With that big appetite I would give him a worm treatment to start with.  Sometimes worms are only active at night so you don't see kids scratching throughout the day.

Some nice pumpkin soup or baked beans in his thermos and a salad sandwich should fill his tummy for a little while.

It's good that he is open to try new things.  :)
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: cathy79 on March 28, 2010, 12:48:20 pm
Karen - I would highly recommend "Feeding Fussy Kids" by Julie Maree Wood - a naturopath and nutritionist.  Every recipe is designed to be appealing to kids, and help with fussy eating.  Every recipe lists what it boosts, and what it's great for.

Eg Iron Booster Balls are great for boosting iron, zinc, phosphrous, copper, manganese, vitamin A, Vitamin C.  Great for boosting fruit, children who eat no red meat, are low in iron.

There are heaps of recipes which recommend a blender, and a coffee grinder to grind the seeds and nuts.  So the recipes perfect for Thermomixers.

There is a recipe for Protein Powder which is the basis of my Milo recipe, quite a few smoothie style drinks packed with protein eg Berry Delicious Protein Boost.

You mentioned he likes peanut butter - you can add the Protein Powder to peanut butter.  There is a few pages on "But I only like..." with ideas to build on their favourites.

So I think this book could be very useful.

Another thought is that if you're thinking it might be Aspergers, I have seen that eliminating wheat and dairy can really help.

Anyway, I really hope you can find an answer soon, and that some of the suggestions are helpful.
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: I Love Bimby! on March 28, 2010, 01:13:58 pm
Thanks for the book tip Cathy. DD is on iron tonic from the naturopath... perfect for her!  :-*

Karen,
I hope this gets sorted for you soon!! Weather it's a medical condition or a phase, I imagine it would be nice to have some answers.  :-* Thinking of you
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: CreamPuff63 on March 29, 2010, 08:47:48 am
miso soup?
Title: Re: Oh wise ones.... advice please!
Post by: versaceyoyo on March 29, 2010, 12:17:32 pm
cathy that book sounds great.

also karen try the miso soup idea from creampuff.  many children love miso because it tastes 'umami' which is one of the basic tastes (along with sweet, sour etc).  Breast milk is also umami which may explain why kids like the taste of other umami foods.