Forum Thermomix
Welcoming Center, Management and General Chat => Suggestions and Complaints => Topic started by: Yvette on April 24, 2011, 10:27:51 am
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Hi everyone I have had my TM for about 9months now and just love it. The last three times I have used it the bottom has had like a reddish film on it quite thick. The first time this happened I soaked for several hours and it came off. Second time did the vinegar EDC trick and it is still happening. I am cooking the recipes that I have cooked many times before and can't understand why this is happening. Even when I cook on the stir speed it still happens. Anyone know why?
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You aren't stirring at a speed high enough and whatever it is that you're cooking is catching, so try a higher speed, not soft stir
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It also maybe that there is a thin film of "stuff" on the bottom of your bowl so things are more likely to stick to it. When this happens to me, I use bicarbonate of soda made into a paste with a very little water, and scrub it thoroughly using a lot of elbow grease.
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You can use gumption on a soft cloth to clean it too.
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Thanks ladies will try these ideas
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Yay it worked thanks Katya I used bicarb because that's what I had, have made two or three main meals since and no sticking. Thanks ladies
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Good work Yvette - good to see the forum is of value :-* :-* :-* :-*
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Great news Yvette - glad it is ok now.
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Thanks everyone this forum is great!!!!!!
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beware as bicarb is abraisive and will in time remove the coating on the TM pan/bowl. I would suggest by grannies trick of soaking with either washing powder and hotwater or dishwasher powder and hot water. Don't scrub, scrape or rub, it will end in tears for sure :'(
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Thanks Mindmapper I cooked another meal last night and it happened again soooo disappointed so did the bicarb thing again, might try dishwasher powder next time as it looks like it will be an ongoing problem
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beware as bicarb is abraisive and will in time remove the coating on the TM pan/bowl. I would suggest by grannies trick of soaking with either washing powder and hotwater or dishwasher powder and hot water. Don't scrub, scrape or rub, it will end in tears for sure :'(
I wasn't aware that the bowl had a coating. I treat it in the same way as I would any other good quality stainless steel pan including using bicarb paste to clean if necessary. Would you mind elaborating on this Mindmapper?
Yvette if food is still sticking to your bowl then, as Thermoheaven mentioned, you need to increase the speed. It's exactly the same as a saucepan on the stove - if you don't stir often enough then food will stick to the bottom.
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mindmapper, don't you think the washing powder might make the seal perish?
I used to have to scrub my bowl when I first got it, but since i've upped the speed, I haven't had any problems. as far as I can tell, scrubbing didn't do the bowl any harm - it doens't have a teflon coating or any other coating as far as i can tell, and surely if it did, making something like sorbet would scour the coating off...and now that I think of it, Yvette, I recall someone using eggshells to scour their bowl - just put the eggshells in the bowl with some water and let the tm scour itself for you. You might want to give that a go or just try scouring by making a sorbet - I know my bowl always looks sparkling after making a sorbet.
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Just what I was goin to suggest thermoheaven! Also milling grain or sugar. ;)
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i dont think the bowl has any coating either as its surgical steel so dont think it can get 'damaged' unless you use something abrasive like with what were the ingredients in the dishwashing liquid recipe..salt crystals and vinegar or something..but saying that to clean my bowl as previously posted i just do the egg shells, warm water and a few drops of detergent (dishwashing) and spin on max for min 1min30 (was my consultant who told me that and also for the min time as any less and it wont give the bowl a good clean! Works perfectly for me and is in no way harmful to the bowl :)
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ok everyone.... bicarbonate is used in most toothpastes as a polish. try it on a piece of hard clear plastic and you will see how much it marks the surface.
washing powder either dishwasher or washing powder will not damage the seal, there are many seals in dishwashers and washing machines and the seals don't fail because of the powder and they are exposed to it day in day out.
scrubbing a metal surface with anything like a pan scrub will also wear the surface away, coated or not. Just take a look at an old pan and you will see what happens.
grinding sugar, salt any other crystal will eventually blunt the blades and wear the pan, that's a physical fact due to the nature of a crystal being spun around at very high speeds. Crushing ice may slightly reedge the blades but any grinding will of course blunt the cutting surfaces, grinding cinnamon sticks WILL eventually blunt the blades, cinnamon is wood bark and blunts tools so therefore it will blunt cutters in a machine like a TM. Ask anyone who works with wood and they will tell you that wood blunts tools, just as food blunts knives.
I hope that helps with the technical facts for all TM users.
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Thanks everyone I just purchased a non marking scourer (as I normally just use a chux) so I will scrub everyone time I use it and hope no film develops on the bottom again and I will cook on speed 1. I will keep you all posted as I am just about to cook the Fast Chicken Curry for dinner.
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I think you may find you need to use speed 2 or 3 rather than 1 Yvette... I only say this in case you find speed 1 didn't help and you get disheartened. ;) ;)
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Thanks Katya, does this dry out the food cooking it on a higher level?
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I don't find it does at all but it may pay to keep an eye on it the first time you try it.
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yvette depending on how much is in the bowl i usually adjust the speed until i see the ingredients moving..sometimes speed one isnt enugh but 1 and a half is if you get my meaning ...adding the butterfly could help with certain recipes also as long as it didnt require over speed 4 which most dont :)
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Thanks Katya and Frozzie I have it on 1 and a half now so I will see how it goes, I also use a kilo of chicken in my recipes.
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when I put things in the dishwasher I worry about it being akin to sandblasting - mindmapper am I being pedantic?
(Usually if I am in doubt anyway, I just handwash)
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I don't know what kind of bicarb soda you have in OZ but the stuff we have here in the US is certainly not "abrasive" per se., and does not have a Mohs hardness to affect stainless steel (SS is 5.5 to 6.0, soda is 2.5) and I know from personal experience that it will not damage chrome plating because I have used it for many years to polish my vintage chromed appliances.
If used fairly dry, it will abrade many plastics but so will a fingernail. In a semi-liquid slurry it will not.
When I was still doing engraving in glass and gemstone carving, I often used bicarb in a tumbler to clean carved amber (same hardness as bicarb), and the plexiglass (3.5 on Mohs scale) mounts in which I displayed the engraved glass panels.
Dental laboratories use it to polish false teeth AFTER the use of abrasives.
Regular tooth paste IS abrasive (calcium phosphate 4.5 to 5.0 on Mohs scale.)
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as far as i can remember andie its the same bicarb soda we have here in france and i didnt think it would be abbrasive either...but couldnt comment as i didnt know for sure as i never use it in cleaning but know it is an old ingredient like vinegar in homemade household cleaning etc..thanks for posting :) :)
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when I put things in the dishwasher I worry about it being akin to sandblasting - mindmapper am I being pedantic?
(Usually if I am in doubt anyway, I just handwash)
In a dish washer the powder is blasted around the chamber under high pressure with hot water. To use it to clean a TM bowl the dishwasher tablet dissolves in warm water and is not mechanical moved around the bowl, therefore it cannot have any abrasive effects.
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I don't know what kind of bicarb soda you have in OZ but the stuff we have here in the US is certainly not "abrasive" per se., and does not have a Mohs hardness to affect stainless steel (SS is 5.5 to 6.0, soda is 2.5) and I know from personal experience that it will not damage chrome plating because I have used it for many years to polish my vintage chromed appliances.
If used fairly dry, it will abrade many plastics but so will a fingernail. In a semi-liquid slurry it will not.
When I was still doing engraving in glass and gemstone carving, I often used bicarb in a tumbler to clean carved amber (same hardness as bicarb), and the plexiglass (3.5 on Mohs scale) mounts in which I displayed the engraved glass panels.
Dental laboratories use it to polish false teeth AFTER the use of abrasives.
Regular tooth paste IS abrasive (calcium phosphate 4.5 to 5.0 on Mohs scale.)
BiCarb does abrade polycarbonate much harder than plexiglass (which is an acrylic) very easily and as you have pointed out is a polish, is used commercially as a polish and will if used enough wear the material, as will egg shells spun at high speed for over an hour.
It is best not to get anything burn on to the jug ,but this will happen, scraping, abrading and rubbing with anything could wear or damage the surface of the jug so its best not done.
The process of polishing is rubbing a surface with finer and finer abrasive until the surface reflects the light/gets clean, it is wearing the surface which is why items such as jewellery eventually wear away, loose any engraving or patterns.
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ok if your going to be that specific, everything gets worn, used but here it would be at incredibly slow rates...i dont think what we are talking about here is going to affect the bowl and like andie said she has been using it for years with no affects so its got to be minimal? In this case we are talking about the SS bowl.
If you do anything repetitively over and over its going to wear any material and even though you mentioned bicarb was in toothpaste there are also other ingredients so why are you mentioning toothpaste..youve lost me a bit on that as andie was talking about regular powder form bicarb soda..as far as i have read nobody mentioned cleaning the bowl with toothpaste???
take it easy mindmapper, i get the impression your being a bit defensive..everyone posts and has their opinion, generally from their own experiences which is what makes this forum great...doesnt mean they are attacking you or your views...just calm down a bit and understand that nobody knows everything and wisdom is about always taking in what others say and agreeing to disagree at times..dont you think??
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as far as i can remember andie its the same bicarb soda we have here in france and i didnt think it would be abbrasive either...but couldnt comment as i didnt know for sure as i never use it in cleaning but know it is an old ingredient like vinegar in homemade household cleaning etc..thanks for posting :) :)
I was pretty sure it was the same thing as we have here.
"Soda blasting" was developed in the 1980s specifically for cleaning the Statue of Liberty during its renovation, without affecting the patina (green color) that had developed on the thin copper sheathing over the many decades.
I do know a little about working with abrasives and polishes. I started out working with various types of stones and gem material forty-some years ago and I have a lot of gem polishing equipment, including a mini "sandblast" unit for carving glass and gemstones. And the hand engravings I did were often "frosted" to produce a dimensional effect.
Like this one:
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/Basenjibabe91/Engravings/dalmatian-engrmed.jpg)
And this one:
(http://i63.photobucket.com/albums/h129/Basenjibabe91/Engravings/Peacock-engraving.jpg)
I have cut and polished just about every type of gem stone, from amber - the softest, to diamonds.
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Andie your skills continue to amaze our family - thank you for sharing yet another on this forum! :) :) Cheers
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very talented :) :) and i love hearing about all your up to and have been up to over the years...yes thankyou for sharing :) :) :-* :-*
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Absolutely amazing engravings Andie,I can't even draw matchstick men! :D :D
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:D :D Can't you CC - that's all I can draw. The grand-children don't seem to mind though.
Andie, what can I say - you never cease to amaze me. You certainly have never wasted a minute of your life. Your postings are like 'show and tell' at school - go to the top of the class :-* :-*
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they are really lovely Andie, you have really captured the expression in the dog's face
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I admire anyone who has artistic talent. I was asked politely if I would like to leave 1st year art. I was very, very pleased to.
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I admire anyone who has artistic talent. I was asked politely if I would like to leave 1st year art. I was very, very pleased to.
No teacher should EVER ask as child to leave their subject! As a teacher of a creative subject I find comments like those mentioned above really shocking, but not uncommon. Everyone can draw, paint, cook and create, its just that some of us are better at it than others, but thats life and human nature. I'm no good at sport, so what, I can cook, draw, paint and be creative.
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I admire anyone who has artistic talent. I was asked politely if I would like to leave 1st year art. I was very, very pleased to.
I am always saddened when I hear people say that they were told they did not have talent for drawing or painting and are discouraged from trying it. I started drawing as a child and I was encouraged even though my early attempts weren't all that great. I did have some lessons and my teachers mostly taught me about how to actually SEE an object and the negative space around it to develop my drawing skills. The rest of my instruction was mostly about technique: How to handle the various media - how colors were mixed to create other colors and so on.
I know people who have taken up art studies in later life and found a lot of enjoyment in it. There are many shortcuts that work well even for people who say they "can't draw a straight line." One lady, near my age, paints flowers from photos and projects the photos onto her drawing surface. A lot of people turn their nose up at this but it is not new, Vermeer used it in his paintings although his "camera obscura" was much less technical.
I think anyone can draw and paint if they learn the tricks of the trade.
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Totally agree, I taught my mother to draw and paint when she was in her 80's she the took up art classes and got a lot of satisfaction from them. I in turn get a lot of satisfaction from cooking and being in the kitchen which is what I learnt from her as a child.
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so true andie afterall art is just a form of expression and everyones way of expressing their thoughts and feelings is different :) I love looking at my kids drawings and seeing how i can value it by using it somewhere...i know of a mum who started a business like that..taking her kids drawings and the business was to transfer them in print onto cushion covers, quilts, etc etc...there are so many forms and types of art and to alot of people its also a way of freely expressing yourself and very theraputic IMO :)
nice story mindnapper..nice that you got to give something back to your mum and she got so much satisfaction out of it :)
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When people who have been discouraged about trying art because they are "too old" I always point out the stories about
Grandma Moses (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grandma_Moses) who didn't start painting until she was in her 70s - had to stop doing embroidery because of arthritis.
She produced a lot of paintings - lived over 100 years and should be an inspiration to anyone who might think they are too old to try something new.
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Our business is arts related and we often get "mature students" in (and by mature I mean that this encompasses those from around 40 to 70+) who have always wanted to learn, but there were other demands on their lives, or maybe they had learned at an early age and stopped but now want to start again. I love working with these people because of their enthusiasm, it is so rewarding for someone on the other side of the counter when your customer gives you such a buzz - my colleagues and I always talk about them with a great deal of happiness when they leave.
These people always get so much more enjoyment, fun and satisfaction from their studies - simply because it is something they WANT to learn and even if they never become "proficient", that doesn't matter, it is all about their own satisfaction in what they are doing.
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Mindmapper1 and andie I truly didn't mind. In fact was pleased. In those 'olden days' (late 50's) yoou could only take a certain number of subjects for your final exams and I had 1 too many so was happy to abandon art as I didn't want to give up any other subjects.
Mindmapper1 I am a teacher too and of course would never say anything like that to a child now. This was all done nicely and no one was hurt.
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Do you really have it going on max speed for 1 and a half hours frozzie? I had not heard of the egg shell trick method before, and it sounds like a great idea, but that does seem like a long time to be on full speed ???
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Looks like a type to me. I'm sure Fozzie means 1 minute 30 seconds ;)
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That sounds more like it Merrilyn, Frozzie were you having a senior moment ;) ;)
There's a discussion on egg shells and cleaning in general here (http://www.forumthermomix.com/index.php?topic=154.0) on the forum.
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oops yes meant 1min30...so sorry..yes JD i think im having a collection of senior moments...starting to fear its settling in ..maybe its just mum with young kids moment :D
works very well KJH and will have to go back and correct the post...definately not 1hour30....think that WOULD actually wear the bowl haha!
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all fixed...think i saw min (minimuim) as the minutes and brain on auto put 1h30 ...just hope the effects wear off when the kids get a bit older...brain is going to mush! :-[
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Haha! Sure it'll get better Frozzie, just in time for old age brain mushiness to set in!
I'm another bi-carb fan. I use it to clean shiny stainless steel surfaces, just don't rub hard. Gumption is also excellent, though it does take a a lot of rinsing to get the detergent off.
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haha mj i hope i get some clear moments between young kids and senior mushiness lol..my DH is starting to worry though! :P
ooo im a gumption fan too..i always have a tub of it in the house and when i run out i get some more from someone coming over! Havent had to use it on the thx yet though (the egg shell thing works well for me)...have only used it on pans that has something burnt onto it but that hasnt happened in ages..years! That stuff is good for everything! :)
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Hmm. I knew if I looked long enough I'd find a thread which would discuss catching. I've just made the sauce for butter chicken tonight and it caught at 9 and 3 o'clock on the jug bottom (if the handle is at 6 o'clock.) It's so odd as I've made this several times and not had it catch. I've used a scrubbie to clean the jug and I'll go back later and try the Bicarb paste to make sure, but will also try a half speed faster in future. Anyone else have this happen?
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I sometimes have things catch on the bottom. It doesn't worry me too much, I just get out the scrubbie or the gumption.
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It happens to me from time to time and I've stopped worrying about it, other than the pain of having to clean it out :D
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Mine seems to have been catching a bit lately too...I do often up the speed slightly until I can see the food moving, but will give my bowl and extra good clean now. :D
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I read this thread yesterday and thought how clever I was that this had never happened to me. Then I made a recipe that was white sauced based and only used speed 1. Guess what? Exactly what is described here. I used Frozzies egg shell idea which helped clean it. So glad I read this thread.