Forum Thermomix

Questions Doubts and Requests => Questions? Technical Issues? The Survival Guide => Topic started by: BellaBear on July 21, 2010, 07:19:05 am

Title: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on July 21, 2010, 07:19:05 am
I make bread every day in my TMX but I mainly do rolls because of a recurring problem I have when I make a loaf - the sides of the bread split near the top.  This makes it really hard to cut and pieces often break away.

I usually do variations on the basic bread recipe - doing one rise and then putting into a cold oven to bake (to get the second rise).  I've tried adding a little more oil to the mix, spraying with water, and rubbing with a little oil.  My thought is that perhaps the second rise is happening too fast??  I did try doing a second rise and then putting into a hot oven but I still got some splitting (not as bad though).

So far this seems to happen if I put it into a loaf tin.  Freeform loaves don't seem to do it.

Any ideas or suggestions?  The kids prefer a loaf so they can have toast.

Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: meganjane on July 22, 2010, 12:20:44 pm
Can you post a photo? I can't really help here as I've never experienced this myself. Have you tried slashing the loaf? I never put my bread in a cold oven, but you say that a hot oven didn't make much difference.
Very frustrating! Hopefully, a bread guru can help you work through this.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on July 22, 2010, 04:41:36 pm
I'll see if I can get a photo tomorrow.  It is a bit frustrating.  Today I made a free-form loaf and it was perfect.  It's something about it being in the tin.  I oil the sides but maybe I need to line them. 
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: faffa_70 on July 22, 2010, 05:03:50 pm
I read this when you first posted it and hoped someone would have an answer for you :( I think Chookie is away and she would possibly be the one with the answer  ??? ???
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on July 23, 2010, 02:12:00 am
Chookie is on holiday at the moment but her computer hard drive has let her down so even when she gets home, she will need more time to get it fixed. 
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on July 23, 2010, 02:47:09 am
Poor Chookie. Bellabear was it in a large enough tin?
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on July 23, 2010, 06:02:31 am
It's a reasonable big tin but it does rise above the top.  It splits right at the top of the tin.  Should it not rise above the top?  I could try splitting it over two tins.

I didn't get a photo today because both of my junior alarm clocks slept in so I didn't get the bread made this morning.  I had to get an emergency bread roll out of the freezer.   :)
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: meganjane on July 23, 2010, 08:42:30 am
Bella, I don't oil my bread pans at all and the bread never sticks. I always let my bread rise above the tin and haven't experienced splitting. I cook mine at 250 C.
Does it split in the oven, or when you take it out? I would actually try slashing it and see if it makes any difference. Just sprinkle unbaked loaf with some flour and make shallow diagonal cuts about 2 cm apart along your loaf.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on July 23, 2010, 09:31:48 am
My bread rises above the tin too , so it can't be that. :P
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Meagan on July 24, 2010, 06:11:58 am
It is hard to say without looking at the split but it might be the way that you kneed it? What sort of bread tin is it? What size and what quantity of dough are you making? Maybe try splitting the dough into two, three or four equal parts and kneed/roll them into ball shapes and sit them next to eachother in the tin then cook as normal.you will end up with what looks like mini loaves next to eachother. Or if you use a lid you will just get a loaf that looks like it is squished together in 2,3 or 4 pieces.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: zebraa on July 25, 2010, 02:21:28 pm
you could try doing it as a ball on a tray and see how it goes then?
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Shayla on July 25, 2010, 10:06:25 pm
A flying crust is a symtom of under proving. Try kneading a few minutes monger. You can check if dough is ready by pulling the dough - it should pull until transparency is achieved, if the dough breaks it has not been kneaded eough and you will find the crust breaks. I usually heat my flour for a few minutes at 50C before adding yeast and liquids, this ensures good activation of yeast. I then knead usually twice as long as recipe calls for and my bread is awesome!! I always do the pull test . Good luck - let me know if this is the solution.
Shayla in Cape Town aka the bread queen
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Thermomixer on July 26, 2010, 05:27:06 am
As Shayla says, it sounds like it hasn't proved enough. Is the bread dense with little holes?

The pull test is to show that the gluten has developed enough. It should be able to be stretched and not break so that you can see through it.

I have never liked the idea of having it go straight into a cold oven.

What is likely to happen in the tin is the top forms a crust and then the expansion of the base pushes it off.

Best to let it prove longer before putting into the oven, allowing it to double in size, have a hot oven ready to put the loaf in, put ice cubes in a tray underneath to produce steam to help keep the crust soft during the initial baking, (until it rises), and that should hopefully help keep the kids happy.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: meganjane on July 30, 2010, 03:21:03 am
I think both Shayla and Thermomixer have answered this. I do agree that a cold oven isn't a good idea for bread. I knead all my bread doughs for 7 minutes in the TMX.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 01, 2010, 08:43:40 am
So sorry it has taken me so long to get back to this thread.  I've been unwell.

Thanks so much for the tips.  I like to hand knead for a while after it comes out of the TMX - just because it feels good - but I'll I'll try kneading for longer in the TMX and letting it fully prove before putting into a hot oven as well as the other tips and see how I go.  I have tried scoring the top as suggested earlier and that has improved matters.  Looks nicer too  :D

Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on August 01, 2010, 09:47:55 am
I hope you're feeling a lot better BB.
Glad to read that the bread is improving too.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 02, 2010, 07:14:06 am
Thanks Cookie, am doing a lot better.  Just tired now I think.

Well today I tried -

Warming the flour
Kneading for twice as long in the TMX
Scoring the top before the second rise
Doing the full second rise outside of the oven
Preheating the oven to a very hot temperature and then turning down when I'd put the loaf in
Putting a tray of ice cubes in with the oven while the loaf was baking.

Apart from one major problem, it was the best loaf I've ever made.  The bread rose perfectly, browned evenly and was super soft and delicious.  Unfortunately it was completely stuck in the tin!  I couldn't get it out.  I ended up having to pull it out in chunks.  It nearly broke my heart because it looked so perfect.  So near but yet so far.  Sigh.    :-))

The dough did seem stickier than normal  - it didn't stick to my hands but did stick a bit more to the TMX blades.  Maybe it needed a bit more flour?

I will not be defeated!   :D
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: gertbysea on August 02, 2010, 07:42:26 am
I admire your tenacity. Glad yo are feeling better.

Gretchen
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 02, 2010, 08:18:39 am
Oh no BB, I really feel for you getting that close.  I bought myself expensive bread tins and the first time I used one, my loaf stuck too so now I use baking paper to line them.  Looks like the next loaf will be the one you can take a picture of, throw out your chest and proudly say "I have finally done it".  Wishing you lots of luck, you certainly deserve it.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: achookwoman on August 02, 2010, 08:37:55 am
BB,  don't give up,  you are nearly there.  The process you have described is perfect.  I use Canola oil on my tins,  it is the only one that doesn't encourage sticking.  As insurance,  I usually sprinkle sesame seeds on the base and sides.  If I were you I would probably line the tin with baking paper until I felt confident.   The slashes on the top of the uncooked loaf,  should be about 1 cm. deep.  Another trick is to flatten out the dough after the first rise,  and then roll it up fairly tight,  drop it in the tin with the join underneath.   The rejects make wonderful bread crumbs.   Good luck,  and let us know how you go. ;D ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 02, 2010, 08:39:47 am
Nice to see you back giving advice Chookie - missed you  :-* :-*
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 02, 2010, 11:51:32 am
Well, I generally come up with some way for the family to eat the rejects.  Today I took the top of the loaf (the biggest part I could get out) and filled it with bolognese sauce, topped it with cheese and grilled.  It made a yummy lunch.  DD got a lunch order though so she was thrilled.  I do have plenty of breadcrumbs on hand now so that's always handy.  :D

Okay, I'm breaking out the baking paper tomorrow morning.  If it is as beautiful as today's loaf (minus the stuck to the tin part), I'll definitely take a photo.  Think I might even frame it.   ;D



Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 03, 2010, 01:56:36 am
Success!!

Well it wasn't perfect but close enough for me.  Lovely and soft and light and it didn't split!  Yay!!  If I can figure out how to upload a photo, I'll show you how it turned out.   ;D  ;D  ;D

Thanks everyone for your help and support.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 03, 2010, 03:27:59 am
Glad to hear you finally got there BB.  It definitely warrants a photo and you can only go on to bigger and better things now.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on August 03, 2010, 08:38:28 am
Well done BB.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: achookwoman on August 03, 2010, 09:44:38 am
This is great BB.  Congratulations. ;D ;D
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: zebraa on August 05, 2010, 03:50:24 am
I oil my tin and sprinkle fine semolina - I find that stops it sticking and keep sthe base crunchy too.

Well done on getting great bread!
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Ceee on August 05, 2010, 06:14:37 am
I learned a trick from one of my customers and that is to wrap the bread (in the tin) in a cotton tea towel when it comes out of the oven, just for a few minutes, an voila! it pops out beautifully!
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Thermomixer on August 08, 2010, 02:01:28 pm
Good work BB - success with your first bread is always a great feeling.  So good when it all works.  Good to see you perevered.  :-* :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*

Thanks for the tip with the tea towel Ceee  :-* :-* :-* :-* :-*
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 09, 2010, 01:49:37 am
It has been working really well since my last post.  I am still excited by each loaf and have to stop to admire it and then get my DH to come and admire too.  If he doesn't show enough awe he's in trouble.   ;D

I haven't had to try the tea-towel trick yet as I'm still lining the tin (although it doesn't seem to need it as it isn't at all stuck to the paper). 

The only downside to my beautiful bread is that I now have to get up earlier so that it has enough time for the longer knead time and the full second rise and still be ready for the school lunchbox.  The things I do so that my kid doesn't have to eat day-old bread!   :P
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 09, 2010, 02:19:26 am
You must get up with the rising sun BB  :o :o  How keen are you and how lucky your child has such a thoughtful Mum. Have you tried making rolls - they can be frozen and taken out in the morning for lunchboxes (as could the slices of bread).   I know where you are coming from with showing every loaf to your DH, I do the same and still marvel at the sight of a loaf or batch of bread rolls that I have made myself. I make more rolls than anything else and do a few different recipes to vary the look and taste of them.  I am so pleased for you that you finally got it right.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: achookwoman on August 09, 2010, 03:13:25 am
BB, this is great,  but not the getting up really early.   How about cooking the bread the night before.  If the amount of liquid is right the next mornings bread should be like fresh.  Add about 1 dessertspoon extra water,  don't cut the loaf until the next morning.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on August 09, 2010, 03:54:34 am
When my bread is cooled I cut it up into slices with an electric knife (actually DH does it as he says left handers look so awkward) and package it into 2 slice packages and put it in the freezer. It always seems to taste fine when we have it as it's used within a few days.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 09, 2010, 04:20:45 am
Is that so you don't eat too much of it Cookie  ;D ;D ;D  I find a loaf of homemade bread goes 3 times as fast as a bought, sliced loaf - I just keep going back for more and my slices are always too thick  :-)) :-))
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: BellaBear on August 09, 2010, 07:48:37 am
Well this time of year I'm definitely up before sunrise but as it's the only quiet time I get, it's really not that much of a hardship.  I just like to complain occasionally to make sure my family appreciates me. ;)  I do keep an emergency supply of rolls in the freezer for the mornings when I'm just too cosy to get out of bed.

I will try cooking it the night before and see how it goes.  Do you just leave it on the cooling rack overnight or do you wait for it to cool and then store?
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: cookie1 on August 09, 2010, 07:52:51 am
Yes Judy, it is to stop me eating too much. I love bread and anything.

BB I would cool the bread and wrap in a teatowel or similar overnight. Not sure what others do.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: achookwoman on August 09, 2010, 10:13:44 am
I just leave it on the cooling rack,  and provided that you don't cut it to see what it is like ;D ;D ;D,  it will hold the moisture in the loaf.   The commercial bakeries put the warm loaf into the plastic bags to hold the 'freshness' in.  That is why they go moldy after a few days.  Good luck and let us know how you go.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: judydawn on August 09, 2010, 02:01:04 pm
Such willpower Chookie.  I just can't wait to cut the crust off and have it whilst it is still warm with butter and vegemite - even DH wants a bit, the only time he really likes bread.
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Cornish Cream on August 09, 2010, 02:22:46 pm
My DH absolutely loves fresh bread.Infact he has a bread with most meals,it's only a roast dinner that he doesn't have bread.I call him the Carbohydrate King because he loves bread, potatoes and rice.He never seems to put on any extra weight but again, he doesn't snack between meals, not like someone I could mention. :-))
Title: Re: Bread is Splitting
Post by: Meagan on August 10, 2010, 02:12:59 am
Well this time of year I'm definitely up before sunrise but as it's the only quiet time I get, it's really not that much of a hardship.  I just like to complain occasionally to make sure my family appreciates me. ;)  I do keep an emergency supply of rolls in the freezer for the mornings when I'm just too cosy to get out of bed.

I will try cooking it the night before and see how it goes.  Do you just leave it on the cooling rack overnight or do you wait for it to cool and then store?

The other option is to add some natural bread improver which will give your bread a bit longer lasting power ;)